Op Helvetic(MACP/MACA)

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CivPlod

Guest
#1
In light of the ongoing worsening situation(as if it had really got any better) in NI, what's the current likely hood of an Army PO deployment(has it happened already?) I ask because I note CC Baggot was on the news stating that the PSNI/RUC would have struggled to contain the rioting when they had 12,000 and the army to help out. I know that the PSNI bods will likely be knackered just now through compulsory overtime an there's no likely hood of mutual aid from the main land, as my force along with others was one of those who provided mutual aid in the past but no longer do so because of the risks. If any other forces do so now I'll stand corrected. Clearly with no sign of compromise, exhaustion is likely to set in soon.

Basically, I'm asking if an army PO deployment is still part of the Op Helvetic package even though PIRA/RIRA etc have made it clear that no army boots have to step on the streets again.


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C

CivPlod

Guest
#3
I don't think it's a great idea. But to add to my opening post I have been there on mutual aid and it was draining enough after a day, then week, never mind the month that they going through with no hope of respite.

So there in lies the issue, the situation is worsening. The prison officers who, last year were told to hand their guns in, have now been told they can have them back. A few of the lads I know in PSNI have been actively targeted and the few TA bods over their that I know have taken to carrying PPWs again.

Lets not forget that Londonderry is the city of culture this year and the TA have to provide security(boots on the ground) allegedly.


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CanteenCowboy

LE
Book Reviewer
#4
Well lets deploy the Mercians from Palace Barracks on PO (if they're not in Afghan) and watch as they slot a hundred paddies and then claim PTSD flashbacks 'made them do it'.

Without a lot of liaision, training and I presume extremely tight control from the PSNI, the British Army will hopefully never deploy in a PO role in that country again. I would hope that it rightfully remains a Police task until there are dead police men* in the streets or the casualty rate is making it unsustainable.


* Obviously means Police women as well.
 
#5
You never know.The normal Paddies who just want to get on with their lives may actually ask for assistance.
 
#8
oh well if we go in again lets not make it a short term assistance like last time !! pah-30+years- drop in the ocean compared with the memories of 1690 !
 
#9
It's got to get a lot more desperate for troops to be deployed again.

It's plod's shit sandwhich take a big bite.
 
C

CivPlod

Guest
#10
We aren't allowed over to take a bite(as I mentioned) any more which leaves the plod over there on a sticky wicket.
The ongoing situation resembles a sin graph, since GFA, it was at a peak, took a good dip an now it's in the rise again, except this time plod now need to worry about both sides.
I accept that most people in NI enjoy going to the shops now without thinking that they're going to get their legs blown off, but GFA clearly isn't sitting well with one side of the community.


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#11
The one thing that allowed PIRA to continue as it did for so long was the support it received from the catholic community.

The current crop of dissident republicans are on the back foot (or should that be right foot) mainly due to this lack of support.

Putting green on the streets will only incite the catholic community.

Besides all that there really is no need to deploy green, the disturbances are relatively minor in comparison to that of many years ago. If the Police can't handle them then there really does need to be a major review of its capability.

Stop expecting the military to do your job, just because it gets a little hard or more hours are required.
 
C

CivPlod

Guest
#12
I think you might have hit the nail
On the head with your "review of its capability comment". If you refer to my opening paragraph, I mentioned CC Baggot said they are struggling with the numbers they have.
The PSNI was scaled for plod to resident similar to the main land scale. But it's not exactly "normal" in comparison to the other forces in the main land.


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#13
The G8 get-together in Fermanagh later in the year isn't looking like such a clever idea now the overtime budget has taken such a hammering!
 
#14
I've never understood teh term 'left footer'? What does it relate to?

There are several possible reasons on t'interweb.
 
#16
The G8 get-together in Fermanagh later in the year isn't looking like such a clever idea now the overtime budget has taken such a hammering!
The cost of policing G8 will not be borne by the PSNI budget - or by any budget which is the responsibility of Stormont or the Northern Ireland office. The cost will be borne by Westminster (i.e. by the British taxpayer as a whole). It will take a while for the money to filter down to the various agencies of course. But it will be there.

It may seem strange but one of the reasons Fermanagh was chosen was to keep the cost of security low. Think of all the alternatives available to those who made the decision. And look at the disadvantages of using those alternatives.

Short of building luxury accommodation on the Outer Hebrides could you find a better place in the British Isles.


And CC Baggott seems to spend far too much time crying into his sleeve. (Certain of his senior team are little better).

He should look at the history of his role, man up, get a grip, and become a leader.

He has not yet had to walk behind the sand-filled coffins of his officers. God forbid that he ever has to!
 
#17
Just going to drag this thread out the closet and give it a dust off, to save making a new one.

Given that HELVETIC is hardly a holiday camp in terms of the fluctuating activity levels over in ye olde NI, do you think the government would dare risk the political implications of giving some kind of recognition or medal to the teams that still go over there? Or would that be leaning too much towards admitting the place isn't the nirvana the general public are led to believe it is?

I've got my helmet on as I'm expecting some incoming but any serious answers from those who know a bit more wouldn't go amiss!
 
#18
No, it's normal duties for the armed forces working over there. The same as mainland UK where no medals are earned as well.
 
#19
In fairness Dingerr for some personnel at least it's a little more than normal duties, in as such there's more of an ongoing threat than they'd expect to face on mainland UK. However, (and this is purely my own opinion) if they didn't hand out a medal for BAOR when bases were being mortared and an active provie gun team were running around they're hardly going to hand one out for current service in N.I.
 
#20
The most active troops over there are EOD and the int community. It's normal jogging for both.

Awarding a medal would infer there is some sort of conflict occuring. That's not the picture HMG wants to paint.
 

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