OP Fresco and the Fire Strike

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Carlos_Hathcock_II, May 13, 2003.

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  1. Gents and ladies,

    As you may or may not be aware the fire brigades union are having yet another meeting to decide on accepting the "new" "last offer" by the govt.

    There is a high chance that they will call more strikes, I wont give the reasons for turning down the offer, unless someone wants to know or the ill informed Sun reader mentaility takes hold.

    The point of this thread is simple. I joined the Army at 16, a boy soldier, did various tours and ops, then for my sins when I left I decided to join the fire service. At the time it was either that or the police as I didnt want to work in an office and wanted to keep the adrenalin thrill.
    And as we all know what the police are like.....

    So when the strikes come again remember that one third of the UK fire service is made up of ex-services- be it Army, Navy or Air.

    We ARE NOT TRAITORS OR LEFT WING LOONIES!!!!!

    Please bear that in mind when and if (i hope that they dont) start again.

    Thank you.
     
  2. msr

    msr LE

    No, but you are going on strike.... If your so big and hard, why don't you make a stand and tell the FBU where to stick their strike action?
     
  3. Funnily enough as I said earlier I wasnt going into reasons why the strike would probably be recalled, if you had the full facts and not what you read in the Sun/Biased press you would understand what the real issues are, and why the strikes will happen. Its about protecting the public.

    For example.

    The Buckinham Place fire took 25 fire engines. London has only 115 fire engines, of which usually 100 to 105 are on service due to staff shortages. Thats means in ONE fire almost 25% of London's fire cover were being used. If you then follow the figures into the amount of cuts that the government wish to bring in the that figure would read, for a night time, 50%. Now you may not live in London, but between 5 and 6 million do ( Govt figures, depending on time of day/day of week)
    and to have one fire taking 50% of the fire cover that you pay for at one fire, does not bode well for any one else needing help. Fire, RTA, Special Service etc.

    That is what the next round of strikes will be about. Keeping the service providing the best cover possible, and not turning it into the joke that is proposed.

    If you think I am scare mongering look to the Army. If it was at the same manning levels as pre-1992 cuts would there be the same level of recruiting and retention problems? No. Would there be the over streching and tour leading to tour problems now? No.

    That is what we are trying to prevent. And unlike the Army, we can vote with our feet by going on strike. If and if that is the only/last resort then that will be taken. Even though no one wants to it may be the only way of making a arrogant and uncaring govt. listen to real and warrented worries and concerns.

    I sorry if the truth doesnt agree with what you have heard in the NAFFI/mess, read in the papers or been told by your best mate down pub.

    Personally I believe I am making a stand and telling the Govt where to stick thier very badly thought out ideas on "modernisation". The funny thing is that 55,000 onther fire fighters, who also know the real reasons also agree with me. Do you realy think we are all left wing loonies?

    You can fool all of the people some of the time and that is what is happening with the press coverage.

    And as MSR has commented the way he has, do you have and suggestions on a better way or do you suggest that the public deserved to be lied to and then left to suffer and pay for the ill thought out ideas of a few been counters?
     
  4. msr

    msr LE

    yawn
     
  5. I think most people will see where you're coming from in terms of public safety and adequate cover and it makes sense to fight for these issues. What gets on everyone's nerves is the massive pay rise and lack of compromise on conditions of service. I know you can't put a price on human life but 40% in the public sector is kicking the arrse out of it. I got 3.2% this year so I'm going to have to work at promotion if I'm to make a real difference to my pay packet, I don't have time for a second job.

    Good luck to you and your colleagues but if you're after sympathy from the men and women who's careers/lives/plans you've disrupted, think again.
     
  6. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    You said it yourself- the uncaring governrment- hello?coffee on? You should try working for the MOD! We die and they dont care!

    The fact you want to strike is the amazing thing- you spout off about being a public life-saving service, try acting like one--DONT!

    Same thread, same posts.Same o' Same 'o! Nothing changes, a fireman trying to justify himself! And still they pump out the same $hite- "Dont believe what you read in the Sun...." Hey Fireman Sam- we never have; we dont,; never will,trust me. If we did the Army wouldn't have gone to Iraq with the same purpose.

    Also by reading the majority of posts in this forum- you can see the armed forces have reasoned arguement and can form our own opinions by reading more than the Sunday Sport- Your low opinion is noted.
     
  7. whens the next strike date going to be ?
     
  8. Soldier_Why

    Soldier_Why LE Moderator

    And here was I thinking that the strikes were about an extortionate pay demand!  If you hadn't been so greedy then the government wouldn't have looked so closely at your "duties" and recommended change (wasn't it an independant review?)

    So now you realise you've lost public support for the wage rise you "conveniently" change your battle cry to one of "trying to save the service".  Let's get real here, you're changing the goalposts to justify strike action.  I'm sorry if the truth doesnt agree with what you have heard in the station, read in the papers or been told by your best mate/shop steward down the pub.

    The users of this site are (I feel) indicitave of the public you wish to serve yet you come up with no new arguments or justification every time you are pressed.  If you wish to follow your FBU masters to hell in a hand basket then that is up to you BUT do not accuse me or others of this site of being misled or ill-informed on this or any other subject.  

    I do have great respect for FF and the job they do but I also have respect for most other public service employees who do a no less necessary job than the Fire Brigade (albeit less hazardous) but you are being used as pawns by the FBU commisars and the sooner you realise this and start compromising the less painful it will be in the long run.
     
  9. Carlos_Hathcock_II


    what are the police like? don't believe everything in the daily mirror you know!!  ( No I am not a policeman)

    As far as I can see the latest offer has been well published, and no it probably is not ideal, it will be more difficult for you if you have to work more than 163 days (approx) a year, how will you maintain the second job? how will you get twenty days off and only use 8 days annual leave?

    Why do you think we all read the sun? where do you get your info from? don't you think we are not capable of research?
     
  10. ex dvr, why do you have a go at the way our time is rostered ? The police and many civilian workforces are actively pursuing a change to our system. Throughout the year we work an average of 42 hours per week (5 hours more than the national average). Just because it is rostered in large lumps doesn`t make the hours any less. We are not whingeing about the hours even though we do that extra 5 , so why should it bother you if our time off is also well worked out into large lumps.? And, if we choose to utilise that time to earn a little extra rather than p*ssing it up against the wall , why should that bother you. I think more than a little envy is the real objection you have to us.
     
  11.  
  12. Well, look on the bright side.............it's not like you had anything else to do now is it?
     
  13. "You said it yourself- the uncaring governrment- hello?coffee on? You should try working for the MOD! We die and they dont care! " Qman9193.

    You obviously didnt read all of my thread. I started by saying that I joined the Army as a boy soldier..... so I have worked for the MoD, infact I still do as Im also in the TA. And, Sir, may I say that it is a totally $hit position to be in but they will continue to take the piss if people let them. eg, When the notification came down to the widow of the RM about repaying £400 wages and moving out, the spineless been counter that thought that one up should have been told where to put his life by the person they told to deliver the message. But it is a case of "I'm all right Jack".

    You also said.. "Also by reading the majority of posts in this forum- you can see the armed forces have reasoned arguement and can form our own opinions by reading more than the Sunday Sport- Your low opinion is noted. "

    One of the reasons why I posted the thread was because of the very reason you have pointed out. But in reading many of the other responses I can see that even if the IQ is higher than the total Sun readership there are still very badly informed arguments. If you are in full knoledge of the facts and then decide to deride the fire service then that is your choise but if you are not... then you appear to be ignorant and ilinformed.
    As for my low opinion being noted, well that in its self smacks of "if you dont aggree with me then your for it!"

    This was not ment as an attack on you personally or the Armed Forces, as I say again I am prowd to have served with the colours.

    "I got 3.2% this year so I'm going to have to work at promotion if I'm to make a real difference to my pay packet, I don't have time for a second job. " Soldier W.

    Whilst I agree the amount you have been paid is not really up to the job you do, you can go for promotion. In the fire service there is promotion but the jump from FF to LeadingFF is only £50 a month. Not realy going to make any difference. The time when promotion payrises starts to show is when I reach senior officer status, nolonger fighting fires, ADO rank and above. And still the pay is only approaching £30k.

    "And here was I thinking that the strikes were about an extortionate pay demand!  If you hadn't been so greedy then the government wouldn't have looked so closely at your "duties" and recommended change (wasn't it an independant review?) " Soldier Why.

    No it was not an independant review.
    In Jan 2002 a Govt report was published by the HM Inspectorate, the body who's job it is to know the fire service inside and out and is nothing to do with either the local authority employers or the firefighters.
    They recamended a doubling of resorces. From the numbers of fire fighter to appliances to money being spent. They also recamended a pay rise. The report, supprisingly enough, was "lost" and was only "found" when a copy was leaked to Channel 4 for an interview with John Prescott. He babbled, floundered and stuttered but was unable to exlain why a govt report less than 8 months old was totally different to the Bain Report.
    At the time of the HM Inspectorate report the FBU went to another Govt body, The Labour Review Board, and asked for a review for the working practices and wages. This is the same body that recamended a 40% rise and pensions rise to all MP's. They looked at what we now do, the hours, danger, skills needed, and where the pay agreement of 1977 should be and said that we should have a .......40% rise!
    We didnt pull that figure out of the air!
    When the Bain Report was being talked about, it hadnt even started to be worked, one of the "independant" muppets on it went up to a leading FBU rep and told him that we would not get 40%, but 16%. If it was so "independant" how did they know the recamendation before the inqurey had even started?
    Also the recamendations that they gave are dangerous, tell me how a fire service can be better and safer with less fire fighters, less fire stations and less appliances? Also the recmendations they gave had ALL been given before by the govt, some as long ago as 10 years. And even more suspect was the fact that some of these "improvements" were wirten word for word the same as they had been back when they were first presented 10 years ago! If you think that is independant then you are mad as a box of frogs! You only thought it was independant because that is what you have been told...... by the press etc. As I said before it best to know the full facts.

    Cont.
     
  14. Carlos_Hathcock_II wrote:

    I keep asking the question of FF. where do you get all the facts from? are the public not allowed to see the "full facts" or is it just that the "facts" are what we have all seen as published, and "the FULL FACTS" are what you are told by the FBU? and you are keeping secret from the public.  How do we get the full facts?

    If it is just the proposal that was put forward at the end of Jan (I think) my own opinion based on what I read of that document and the reaction of the FBU is, you want the money but do not want to change your shifts or the way you work now, basically you want all the cake and eat it as well, it just seems there is no compromise from the FBU at all. But no doubt I don't have all the "facts" as Tenorplayer will no doubt point out . Someone should have somewhere ???
    ( just trying to save him a post)

    Tenorplayer what is your working weekly hours, not your average? I used to work 62 hours a week one week then 28 hours the next as i could only work 90hours per fortnight so my average was 45 hours per week!! you get paid for 42 hours per week is that productivity hours or attendance hours?
     
  15. Well  ..... if I understand this correctly, the FBU are going to meet again on Tue 20 May, therefore the earliest they can strike is Tue 27 May which means deployment over the weekend, Bank Holiday Mon 26 and working on the Soveigns B'day on Tue 27 May.

    This is hardly the way for the FBU to enlicit public or indeed The Armed Forces's support !!