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Op Banner photos - some memories for the old and bold

'Bellwether'. I've always thought that Dominic McGlinchey suited that role or description best, although both were fairly uniquely poisonous people.
Not a name that I'm familiar with, but there's guaranteed to be others.

I mean - inter-ethnic/religious/political violence is guaranteed fun for the masses. Wise guys can always find ways to indulge their greed, and/or penchant for violence, while draping themselves in The Banner
 
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The obligatory Tin City end-of-course Riot (whether UK or BFG based) was always a thing of beauty: scores (real or imagined) were settled, the 'rioters' were always suitably refreshed and at least one prospective GBH was committed :)
Went on some crackers down in Ballykinlar.

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Collecting overdue council rent on Creggan Heighs was rarely a straightforward task.
As was collecting unpaid TV licence fees in the Ardoyne!!

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maguire

LE
Book Reviewer
not a 'photo' as such, but I'm hoping this is perhaps a good place for it - Forgotten Weapons have a piece on the .22LR Walther pistols issued in NI during this period -

 
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Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
Err yes but it was pretty serious, our REME put me in hospital with concussion when they “forgot” to empty the tin cans they were throwing at us!
Sorry about that. Still, even-stevens for the time on PDT when I was snatched, and given a kicking by what felt like half a company, but was probably only a Brick. Two cracked ribs and double vision for the next couple of days IIRC.
 
not a 'photo' as such, but I'm hoping this is perhaps a good place for it - Forgotten Weapons have a piece on the .22LR Walther pistols issued in NI during this period -

ISTR a 7mm pistol being issued but I don't recall the make. I only saw it once, carried by a civvy contractor.
 
ISTR a 7mm pistol being issued but I don't recall the make. I only saw it once, carried by a civvy contractor.

If the contractor was actually a civvy and not a UDR or RUC Part Timer then it would have been a private purchase, not issued by anyone.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
The .22 Walther was issued to the CO’s driver during my last tour
 
If the contractor was actually a civvy and not a UDR or RUC Part Timer then it would have been a private purchase, not issued by anyone.
He was definitely a civvy, and didnt mention being a cop or in the UDR. He declared the weapon when he came on camp, we kept it in the guardroom while he went about his business.
 
The .22 Walther was issued to the CO’s driver during my last tour
12 Int &Sy Company in Lisburn had .22 Walthers as they wore civie suits and the walther didn't leave a bulge and more importantly looked more sophisticated and 007 than those vulgar 9mm Brownings. Until the incident with Princess Anne's Met Police bodyguard on the Mall in 1974 when his Walther jammed and he was shot while attempting to stop an armed kidnap attempt on her.

The next day the 12 Int boys were all walking around with Brownings under their suits.
 
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not a 'photo' as such, but I'm hoping this is perhaps a good place for it - Forgotten Weapons have a piece on the .22LR Walther pistols issued in NI during this period -

Where do you put the caps?
 
12 Int &Sy Company in Lisburn had .22 Walthers as they wore civie suits and the walther didn't leave a bulge and more importantly looked more sophisticated and 007 than those vulgar 9mm Brownings. Until the incident with Princess Anne's Met Police bodyguard on the Mall in 1974 when his Walther jammed and he was shot while attempting to stop an armed kidnap attempt on her.

The next day the 12 Int boys were all walking around with Brownings under their suits.

Wasn't that a Beretta? And due to the gentleman carrying it having that single magazine loaded for years (presumably used for range shooting in the mean time), rather than rotating mags or, even, upgrading the notoriously dodgy original spring.
 

9.414

Old-Salt
He was definitely a civvy, and didnt mention being a cop or in the UDR. He declared the weapon when he came on camp, we kept it in the guardroom while he went about his business.
The RUC would very rapidly allow a FAC for a contractor because of the risks and they could buy whatever they wanted or could afford.

UDR soldiers in the main had the .22 Walther as their issued PPW, although the 9mm Browning was authorised in some circumstances. Each UDR Bn had (IIRC) 2 x 7.65mm Walther PP on their charge which usually were issued to the CO and TM (probably the least vulnerable people in the unit as they lived in the mess or an MQ!)

The weapon was only issued if there was a confirmed threat or perceived danger, not too hard in the circumstances. Not everyone wanted to be armed or could manage to carry covertly in their civi work or off-duty.

If a UDR soldier wanted something else they could apply for a FAC and buy whatever they wanted or could afford. If you had a service weapon PPW already issued it was no problem to get a FAC and buy your own replacement.

The FAC allowed you to hold 25 rounds and did not permit you to buy any more without permission of the Chief Constable - so an application to the firearms branch was needed. Therefore it made sense to get one in a calibre that was issued as you could practice on a range day using army issue ammo.
 
Wasn't that a Beretta? And due to the gentleman carrying it having that single magazine loaded for years (presumably used for range shooting in the mean time), rather than rotating mags or, even, upgrading the notoriously dodgy original spring.
According to Wiki it was a Walther.

As Princess Anne and Mark Phillips were returning to Buckingham Palace on 20 March 1974, from a charity event on Pall Mall, their Princess IV car was forced to stop on the Mall by a Ford Escort.[24] The driver of the Escort, Ian Ball, jumped out and began firing a pistol. Inspector James Beaton, Anne's personal police officer, responded by exiting the car in order to shield her and to attempt to disarm Ball. However, Beaton's firearm, a Walther PPK, jammed, and he was shot by the assailant,
 
The RUC would very rapidly allow a FAC for a contractor because of the risks and they could buy whatever they wanted or could afford.

UDR soldiers in the main had the .22 Walther as their issued PPW, although the 9mm Browning was authorised in some circumstances. Each UDR Bn had (IIRC) 2 x 7.65mm Walther PP on their charge which usually were issued to the CO and TM (probably the least vulnerable people in the unit as they lived in the mess or an MQ!)

The weapon was only issued if there was a confirmed threat or perceived danger, not too hard in the circumstances. Not everyone wanted to be armed or could manage to carry covertly in their civi work or off-duty.

If a UDR soldier wanted something else they could apply for a FAC and buy whatever they wanted or could afford. If you had a service weapon PPW already issued it was no problem to get a FAC and buy your own replacement.

The FAC allowed you to hold 25 rounds and did not permit you to buy any more without permission of the Chief Constable - so an application to the firearms branch was needed. Therefore it made sense to get one in a calibre that was issued as you could practice on a range day using army issue ammo.
How about now?
 

9.414

Old-Salt
Wasn't that a Beretta? And due to the gentleman carrying it having that single magazine loaded for years (presumably used for range shooting in the mean time), rather than rotating mags or, even, upgrading the notoriously dodgy original spring.
No, the Inspector was carrying a Walther PPK, but bad magazine rotation was blamed.
 

9.414

Old-Salt
How about now?
You can still have a pistol in NI for personal protection if there is believed to be a threat. Many who held one during the "troubles" may well still do so on the basis that a local politician has assured us that "... they haven't gone away you know ..."

Some rather dated info is here:

The official line is here:
 

overopensights

ADC
Book Reviewer
How about now?
Whilst on a two year attachment to the 2nd Co Armagh Bn UDR (1975/77) I spent an awful lot of time inspecting soldier's PPWs, a .22 walther pistol. We had a 30m range where I used to get the soldiers to fire a few rounds almost daily. It was quite a useless weapon, and often stopped after one or two rounds. The lead headed round found it difficult to handle all the pocket fluff and tobacco from the soldier's trouser pocket. Even though we lost 16 or 18 soldiers in the two years that I was there, it was difficult to get soldiers to maintain their pistols, they had no faith in them and thought them useless against the armalite, which caused 95% of the deaths. Many of the 2nd Bn soldiers were farmers, they carried hay or straw bales in the back seats and the boots of their cars, they relied on these to stop bullets, that and the licensed shotguns they carried with solid shot. They were a great and courageous group of men and women.
 

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