only 30 on the May TA RMAS Cse

What is going on!!!!

How the hell has it all got soooo bad that the grown ups, have not noticed the lack of numbers passing out of RMAS.

Past 2 courses below 30 pax ummm!!
They have, why do you think all this DEPO stuff is going on. Which, I note is the route by which you joined us.

And they may be small courses but 100% of the previous and a very high percentage of this one is made up of OCdts who intend going on to a TA Commission rather than the so-called "full" courses of previous years where UOTC OCdts used it as a taster for the Regular Course.

Evilone, get off arrse, get off your ar se and get out there and recruit some more. If the 3 TACCs planned for 2006 are short of OCdts from your Bde area, it is Officers at your level who will need to explain what they were doing (or not doing) in support.

Note to mods and anyone else. Evilone posts here with charactersitic diplomacy and forethought but his point is worth addressing rather than deleting and I am happy to record that he has done more for Officer Recruitment in his Bde Area than just about any other junior officer I know.
Ah I see the teeth have been put to good use again abacus!!!

This was not aimed at your end of the market as I have an intamate knowledge of the DEPO system. If I recall on my last visit to that side of the border (Glasgow/Edinburger) that is all seems to be going swimmingly. Scotland seems top have more that matched the criteria set down by the grwon ups.
This was aimed at the Otc world as the May/July courses should be full of all of the Otc superstars!!

The Depo system is working but does not seem to be getting the support it should from our Otc counterparts.

I am never on my ARRSE to busy for that sitting down stuff!!
^Judging by the fact that the Regular RMAS Courses are oversubscribed I would suggest that the UOTCs (I assume that's who you mean) are doing a fairly good job. Certainly, any UOTC OCdts who have joined DEPO Mod 3 training so far have been to a very high standard. And our first priority must always be to the Regular Army IMHO, indeed we are starting to have significant success in transferring DEPOs to Reg RMAS ourselves. For Yoony types who decide not to go Reg can I refer you to my earlier post - if they don't know anything about you, why should they join you? The ball is back in your court....
Again a very valid point that Reg RMAS is fully subscribed, I would still challenge the sats until the black and white numbers could be seen. We do visit the local city Otc's and do offer help and advice if required. I still feel that the conversion from Otc to either Reg or Ta is not as good as everybody thinks.

Short back hand drop to front of the net!

May = Exams therefore it's not realistic to expect big attendance from UOTCs in May - now July - I tend to agree...

if that was aimed at me - no.
or me - no

Stirling Management Centre a favourite haunt but I think I would stick out like the proverbial if I went to the Students' Union.
By the by. Does anyone know how the new TACC differs from the old one. My regt is sending our first Ocdt since last September this September, and it would be good to have decent int. Obviously being prepared as poss is important, but an outline of the course would be good. He's done mod 3 etc.
If Mod 3 ran true to the Course Training Plan then he already knows what it's like. Specific detail is always going to vary from TACC to TACC as the Sandhurst Instructors will adapt timings, sequencing and - from time-to-time - focus to ensure that they are testing all OCdts properly.

You may well find that your unit already has the int they require if they attended this month's Visitors' Day on the TACC.

One major difference that all should hoist in - if you can't comfortably pass the BPFA at Green - DON'T GO! Reds WILL be RTUed immediately. Ambers will have a re-test but will probably fail anyway because no allowance will be made for the fact that they are weak.
As a member of the training staff at an UOTC I suggest that it is not that we don't want to send people to do their TACC but merely with the extra obstacles placed in the way it takes longer for people to become qualified to go. Consequently by the time people are fully qualified and have completed all the pre-requisite training they are more interested in sorting out their civvy careers and to be fair I can't balme them, we have managed to get various students through all the training needed this year MTQ2 & 3 etc but it is difficult.
musicalmarvin said:
I wouldn't be too sure on that phys side - it varies from course to course. On mine i think 4 fails was the max (though unsure whether amber or red fails)
I think you should listen to abacus - RED will fail and be RTUd, AMBER will be retested and may/might pass the course - however, individual circumstances will be taken into account. As an aside it is a 'basic' assessment after all - and you expect it of your soldiers!

On 3 t's weekend during the last TACC and we were told that one bod had got red and two amber. They were going to resit and if red again then binned and there was some discussion as what to do with amber. The standard for passing out of RMAS is that you MUST have passed with green. So it was looking like they were going home too. Anyone who was on the TACC able to update us??
^Those who deserved to pass, passed, those who didn't failed in one or more areas across all testing areas (including that of attitude). Everyone who passed the course got a green on their BPFA although some had multiple attempts to do so.

Can we please stop trying to dissect the course too much. One massive advantage we have in the TA Offr training world is that RMAS pass (or fail) on MERIT (or absence of). They are not influenced by politics nor will they pass borderliners because they are desperate to recruit. If 30 start and none make the grade, the Adjt's horse stays in the stable. I, for one, am not going to question the probity of the Sandhurst DS when they say that an individual makes the grade and definitely not when they say he/she doesn't!.
As to there being more people (OTCs) available for the July course - I'm not too sure if that makes a difference. This July only 31 turned up for it, and only 23 passed out (after being kicked off/dropping out)
The way forward is recruiting more.

Simple facts time, ladies and gents: If it takes 10 module 1 starters to get 1 module 4 pass and we want 90 on a module 4 then we need to recruit 900 OCdts across the UK for EACH AND EVERY module 4. 3 module 4s a year therefore 2,700 required.

I'm not convinced that we recruit much more than that as soldiers each year so let's start analysing a bit further.

The 10:1 ratio is fairly accurate as the 20 odd genuine Direct Entrants on this year's mod 4s have come from around 2 years' worth of DEPO recruiting suggesting 100 or so a year and this is borne out further by direct experience of yours truly and others.

We have neither the infrastructure, nor the instructor resource to cope with 2,700 new starts per year therefore we need to work at improving the ratio of starters to passes.

If we could reduce it to a 4:1 ratio then we would require to start only 150 per RTC / DSTT per year. The best started no more than 40 last year and the average was probably nearer 25 (of those who recruited at all). pm me for source of this info - I am aware I'm getting into "could be quoted" territory.

To fill each course to capacity - without relying on UOTCs - each RTC / DSTT would need to recruit 30 and achieve a 1:1 pass rate.

Can I go back to my original point - we really do need to recruit more.

And it needs to be targetted marketing backed up with genuine, go-out-and-grab-em style recruiting so that we can gain a better quality of average starter so that the majority are above the quality line and not just there for "bulk" (call it critical mass to start the course if you will)

The new TA Officer Recruiting campaign starts early in September. Please would you all act in support of this marketing and make sure those people who you know would make a good officer get involved. Drag them into the nearest TAC and get their signatures on an application form if you can.

It is also incumbent on all of us in the training world to ensure we do our bit to improve the ratio with better training. RMAS are taking steps to ensure that this happens but we need the people to train and everyone reading this has a part to play in the recruitment process. How big a part you make it is up to you...

Perhaps it is more a reflection of the fact that as a TA officer your job is to provide soldiers and junior NCOs for the regular army to use on Ops and the chance of 'serve to lead' on an Op tour is far more likely to be 'serve to deliver nugatory staffwork'.

Hence the chronic, and worsening recruiting figures for TA Officers (av. age 40).

There are 10000 members of ARRSE. If everyone of us meets just one person this year and says 'you should join the Army', whether as an officer or soldier, regular or TA it will make a difference. It takes an application of effort: if you are serving in any capacity you are the advert and salesman all in one. Next time you go to the pub and meet someone who you like and wouldn't half mind working with them give them the details of the recruiting office, even better take their name and address and give it to the recruiters. It doesn't matter if you meet them in the pub, in the bookies, in the supermarket.

It takes a long time to get through the system, so start early.

Recruit, recruit, recruit.

I don't need to tell the members of ARRSE how good the Army is (or can be), it is the members of ARRSE who could help make the difference. Imagine if every soldier got just one recruit through the door of a AFCO or TAC every year, what a result.

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