Ongoing Pakistan ant-AQ operations

#1
This hasn't been getting much press in the Western media, but there has been intense fighting in North Waziristan over the last week or so. 11 Pakistani soldiers have been KIA, including a Major - highest ranking PA soldier to die so far :( RIP guys. Plenty of AQ goons have bitten the dust thankfully.

There has been disquiet in Pakistan over the level of casualties incurred in these operations - soldiers in this area are not well equipped (no body armour + using soft skinned vehicles for transport so bullet wounds and IED's have claimed many lives) and there has been a reluctance to use air strikes for fear of civilian casualties. Also it is an emotional issue for soldiers of the Frontier regiment to have to fight, in some instances, their own people. Not a good situation for the PA really, but can't be helped. Around 200 PA soldiers have been killed over the last two years - more than the US army has lost in Afghanistan over the same period. I hope people who claim that Pakistan is not doing 'enough' in the war on terror will pause for thought at the sacrifice these brave soldiers have made. At least some progress is being made - Southern Waziristan has been more or less cleared now, so the army is focusing on the Northern part now.

Also some good news - a leading Taleban spokesman has apparently been apprehended:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4308962.stm
 
#2
razorman said:
I hope people who claim that Pakistan is not doing 'enough' in the war on terror will pause for thought at the sacrifice these brave soldiers have made. At least some progress is being made - Southern Waziristan has been more or less cleared now, so the army is focusing on the Northern part now.quote]

Very surprising comment from an apparent 'geek' (OK maybe not !!!). I assume you've got the access to the relevant publications, and if not, a bit of rudimetary recent PK history would probably explain things better. Take it from someone on the ground.....

WRONG!!!
 
#3
Leon said:
razorman said:
I hope people who claim that Pakistan is not doing 'enough' in the war on terror will pause for thought at the sacrifice these brave soldiers have made. At least some progress is being made - Southern Waziristan has been more or less cleared now, so the army is focusing on the Northern part now.quote]

Very surprising comment from an apparent 'geek' (OK maybe not !!!). I assume you've got the access to the relevant publications, and if not, a bit of rudimetary recent PK history would probably explain things better. Take it from someone on the ground.....

WRONG!!!
Wow, now we have a member of AQ posting on here :roll:
 
#4
Is it me or has Musharraf gone a bit la-la recently? He seems to be making public gaffs galore (the rape gaff, the 'I hope that OBL is not caught in Pakistan' gaff). Do have to say that his advice to South Korea to stay out Iraq was just pure genius, even if the South koreans let the cat out of the bag with their thanks.
I agree with Razor's comments about the unrest but I think that Musharraf has a dual motive in combating the tribal provinces, not only does he keep the Americans onside but he is the first president to actively bring these areas under federal control. Therefore I think that Musharraf will continue with these operations.
Personally if I was the general I would start mutterings that OBL was in Balochistan - voila Iran solved in an instant ! :twisted:
 
#6
castlereagh said:
Is it me or has Musharraf gone a bit la-la recently? He seems to be making public gaffs galore (the rape gaff, the 'I hope that OBL is not caught in Pakistan' gaff). Do have to say that the advice to South Korea to stay out Iraq was just pure genius if the South koreans let the cat out of the bag with their thanks.
I agree with Razor's comments about the unrest but I think that Musharraf has a dual motive in combating the tribal provinces, not only does he keep the Americans onside but he is the first president to actively bring these areas under federal control. Therefore I think that Musharraf will continue with these operations.
Personally if I was the general I would start mutterings that OBL was in Balochistan - voila Iran solved in an instant ! :twisted:
Musharraf is is a very secure position at the moment - perhaps that is why he has 'let his guard down' with some ill-advised comments. To be honest, castle, PR has never been a strong point for Pakistanis :D To be fair, despite the furore over his rape comments, he earned a lot of kudos with his speech to the US Jewish community. Coupled with the Pakistan-Israel contacts we have seen recently, this is going to do a lot of good for Pakistan's image.

As far as the tribal areas goes, I think Musharraf, to his credit, has been taking a long term approach to the situation. While the West may see capturing Bin Laden and cracking down on AQ as the priority, from a Pakistani persepective this is only a short term affair. The real problem with the tribal areas is the fact that it has remained stuck in a time warp, outside the laws and regulations of the rest of Pakistan. It is this lawlessness and lack of development which allowed AQ to gain a foothold in these parts. What Pakistan has been doing is marrying the military operations against AQ with a development program - building roads, providing electricity, schools, healthcare, etc. The overall aim should be to - over a period of time - bring modernity to the tribal areas and hopefully begin to incorporate it into 'mainstream' Pakistan. No easy task, given the centuries-old way of life of the tribes, but it is the right thing to do.
 
#7
Job vacancy:

As a potential pseudo political spokesperson for a little known ARRSE forum, you should be able to demonstrate a sound grasp of written English without necessarily having a clue what your writing about. You will have the ability to blindely quote broad-sheet editorials / BBC news websites without the slightest hint of depth of knowledge. Your ability (albeit perceived) to sound vaguely interesting to the largely ignorant or uninterested readers will be key to your success. Successfull applicants will be required to sit a basic 'dictation test'
In the meantime, remain locked in your home and under no circumstances should you attempt to step outside your front door.

If the cap fits!
 
#8
razorman said:
Musharraf is is a very secure position at the moment
However he could be killed at any moment (as another dictator Zia ul-Khak). And what would be external policy of Pakistan after it? Only Allah knows.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4310138.stm

Four men have been sentenced to death in Pakistan for attempting to assassinate President Pervez Musharraf.
Is there 'a hand of Moscow'? Probably not, but

On Tuesday, Russia's foreign ministry said one of the convicted men, Akhlas Akhlaq, 24, was a Russian citizen.

It said it had asked for consular access but had so far been denied.
Pakistan is on the right way to true democracy.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/03/17/pakistan.rice/

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, in a visit to Pakistan Thursday, expressed optimism about the country's democratic evolution...

She stressed that Pakistan is on a road toward democratic reforms "that would lead to free and fair elections in 2007."
Probably they would be postponed to 2008-2009...

Once hidja Nasreddin promised sultan to teach his donkey to read Koran within 20 year. The sultan promised to cut his head if he will fail. Poor hidja people said. Don't worry answered Nareddin. After 20 years no doubt the sultan, me or the donkey will be dead.
 
#9
Leon said:
Job vacancy:

As a potential pseudo political spokesperson for a little known ARRSE forum, you should be able to demonstrate a sound grasp of written English without necessarily having a clue what your writing about. You will have the ability to blindely quote broad-sheet editorials / BBC news websites without the slightest hint of depth of knowledge. Your ability (albeit perceived) to sound vaguely interesting to the largely ignorant or uninterested readers will be key to your success. Successfull applicants will be required to sit a basic 'dictation test'
In the meantime, remain locked in your home and under no circumstances should you attempt to step outside your front door.

If the cap fits!
Oh dear, AQ boy. What's wrong - just because your beloved Osama is hiding in a cave somewhere, no need to get upset :D I'm sure 'Leon' thinks that just because his friends pulled off July 7th, his side is winning :roll:
 
#10
razorman said:
Musharraf is is a very secure position at the moment - perhaps that is why he has 'let his guard down' with some ill-advised comments. To be honest, castle, PR has never been a strong point for Pakistanis :D To be fair, despite the furore over his rape comments, he earned a lot of kudos with his speech to the US Jewish community. Coupled with the Pakistan-Israel contacts we have seen recently, this is going to do a lot of good for Pakistan's image..
True the Paks are rather rubbish at PR (though I have heard that Musharraf has hired some lobby firm in the US) but it wasn't always like that was it though? The free world once smiled on Pakistan and we all know the trouble that Pakistan got because of that positivity! :p


[/quote]What Pakistan has been doing is marrying the military operations against AQ with a development program - building roads, providing electricity, schools, healthcare, etc. The overall aim should be to - over a period of time - bring modernity to the tribal areas and hopefully begin to incorporate it into 'mainstream' Pakistan. No easy task, given the centuries-old way of life of the tribes, but it is the right thing to do.[/quote]

Absolutely agree and just think if he does do it. He will have done something that people like Olaf Caroe thought could never ben done !
 
#11
KGB_resident said:
However he could be killed at any moment (as another dictator Zia ul-Khak). And what would be external policy of Pakistan after it? Only Allah knows.
Continue on with the same policy , even Musharraf's critics admit that Pakistan's FP has brought the nation great benefits the deap sea port at Gwadar, a prime example.

On Tuesday, Russia's foreign ministry said one of the convicted men, Akhlas Akhlaq, 24, was a Russian citizen.
It said it had asked for consular access but had so far been denied
Pakistan is on the right way to true democracy..
Sergei, who would you hold up as a beacon of democracy - Putin? I think in the above story we may be ignoring the simple fact that the Pakistanis don't like the Russians mostly because of their firm support for India. I think the Pakistanis see it as a case of 'who is Russia to ask?'
 
#12
KGB Resident, there is a history of poor Pak-Russian relations - Soviet complicity in 1971 and ISI's role in the Afghan war have left bitterness on both sides. However, the past is the past. Given India's current flirtations with the US (witness the way they backstabbed Iran recently) don't you think it's time Russia rethought its South Asia policy?
 
#13
castlereagh said:
Sergei, who would you hold up as a beacon of democracy - Putin?
Putin? No of course. Putin is a politician with level slightly about average. However he was democratically elected (unlike Musharraf) and enjoys real (not imaginary) support.

As I understand many on this Forum don't regard mr.Blair as a beacon of democracy too.

Probably ship of democracy is in a very difficult situation without beacons.

razorman said:
KGB Resident, there is a history of poor Pak-Russian relations - Soviet complicity in 1971 and ISI's role in the Afghan war have left bitterness on both sides. However, the past is the past. Given India's current flirtations with the US (witness the way they backstabbed Iran recently) don't you think it's time Russia rethought its South Asia policy?
Relations between Russia and Pakistan are improving now.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2721723.stm

"Our relations have been developing quite well, particularly within the anti-terror coalition," Mr Putin said.

"I compliment you for the popularity you enjoy in the nation and the stature you enjoy as a leader of the world," President Musharraf told Mr Putin.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/south_asia/2734383.stm

" Russia is well-placed to play a key role in the resolution of disputes and improving relations between India and Pakistan "
President Musharraf
However, India is the biggest democracy in the world and Pakistan is a dictatorship. It should be taken into account.
 
#14
KGB_resident said:
Relations between Russia and Pakistan are improving now .
"Our relations have been developing quite well, particularly within the anti-terror coalition," Mr Putin said.

"I compliment you for the popularity you enjoy in the nation and the stature you enjoy as a leader of the world," President Musharraf told Mr Putin.
However, India is the biggest democracy in the world and Pakistan is a dictatorship. It should be taken into account.[/quote]

It is true Sergei that relations are improving but the Russians truly did miss the boat with Pakistan because of their Indian commitment. India's defence spending has to come to a plateau soon enough and closer relations with the Americans and Indian hopes to rival China may mean that India has no choice but to move away from the Russian orbit.
 

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