One OTC For Scotland

Discussion in 'OTC and ACF' started by jash, Jan 15, 2004.

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  1. Should Scotland be served by one OTC with numerous detachments (like Wales) or even be divided into a highlands and Lowlands OTC to save money?
  2. Hmm... I'm not sure that would be wise. The Welsh OTCs meet up on their weekend training in Cardiff. I don't think Scottish OTCs could do the same, as some are just too far away.
  3. Not really feasible is it? That'd be a hell of a long way for some poor sods. Anyway, most of the Jock OTCs are doing alright aren't they?
  4. what about the highland/lowland option then, I know theres been lots of talk about combining Aberdeen with Tayforth and since Glasgow and Edinburgh are within spitting distance, this option could be possible
  5. True, that's possible. But back to Luce's question: the Scots OTCs are doing alright, aren't they? Why the need to lump them all together?
  6. well recruiting wise yep, but the cost of doing anything is mad, for any competitions Aberdeen and Tayforth fly, and then rent cars, lump them together and tahts a lot less travel expenses, as well as not having to worry about staff. I think itll really be a shame as while the Jock OTCs arent the largest they alway put in a great effort! An example is Minley, Aberdeen last year, due to funding cuts, spent ten hours driving down and another 10 back and spent only 21 hrs there. They left at 4am on friday morning and got back at 3am on monday and inbetween had to compete in the competition and keep the social side up!
  7. As far as I am aware Tayforth travel to competitions by minibus driven by a PSI. I've never heard of O/Cdts going to competitions/courses by plane or hire car.

    And in relation to Glasgow and Edinburgh combining to form 1 Lowland UOTC, Stirlin (part of Tayforth) is about 20 miles from Glasgow; would it make sense for them to travel to Aberdeen every Wednesday night?

    10A Out
  8. A flight and a hire car is pretty standard for comps with Queens as we dont have much of a choice same for courses, with MOD discount on the hire cars and not having to pay insurance most of the time ur talking roughly the same price of a rail warrant
  9. Er - since when exactly?

    Have you not just contradicted your last staement?

    Why would it even be considered that detachments travel in excess of 60 miles (120 mile round trip) to a central location for a Drill Period? Is it for the sake of as Jash states a saving in staff overheads?

    Centralised training -v- Detachment Training, the pro's and cons

    Premise 1 - Centralised training requires less staff. What about instructor to trainee ratio? Centralising your manpower simply increases the number of bodies in one location. To continue to deliver quality instruction you require to maintain optimal instructor:trainee ratios - therefore you require the same number of teaching staff if training is carried out centrally or at dispersed locations. The only staff saving that can effectively be made is in G4 and BHQ, by reducing the Admin element.

    Premise 2 - Centralised training requires pers to travel. Lift capacity is not generic to any Zone 1 UOTC as far as I am aware (poss QUOTC is an exception) - therefore you immediately increase the travel budget. This is already a VERY large percentage of expenditure.

    Continuing 2. Where do you lift to? Wherever the location, you will inevitably lift more pers than currently - there are 3 problems with this:

    a. Travel time increases time that pers are on duty - a Drill Night immediately becomes 0.5MTDs per capita as opposed to 0.25MTDs - congratulations you have just increased unit expenditure 100%

    b. Organised Unit travel requires scheduled departure times. Pers will not be able to socialise with other unit members after training periods because they have to travel the 60-100 miles back to own locations - you have just removed a vital part of the UOTC purpose/ethos/package.

    c. Increased travel mileage increases risk of RTA, thereby reducing effectiveness of Train Safe policies

    Premise 3 - Centralised training requires Real Estate. Given current manning levels of each UOTC is probably in excess of 200+, if you centralise these people, where are you going to accommodate them? None of the current UOTC buildings have sufficient accommodation for such large numbers, and I would lay odds on that each TAC is creaking at the seams as it is on a normal Drill Night.

    In the case of TUOTC that currently operates a dispersed training regime, when they wish to carry out centralised training, they require to move to an ATE Training Establishment. If this is already the case, combining with other units and having nothing but centralised training for each training event, would mean the use of such an establishment for every training period. There is already a great deal of pressure on ATE availability - do you really consider it viable that a low priority unit such as an UOTC would get such block bookings?

    As far as I am aware there has been an idea mooted that amalgamation should be considered for at least some of the UOTCs, but this really is in terms of disbanding some BHQs in a manner similar to the TA infantry under SDR. The current UOTCs would then operate as "independant companies" working to however many central HQ's, and would probably follow the TUOTC example of dispersed weekday training in current locations, and centralised Unit training at weekends.

    Unfortunately we don't know what will happen, but ultimately the decision is going to be made by some faceless bean counter, who is not going to be interested in the training implication of his/her cost cutting exercise. I think the only certainty that we have on this subject is that a change is certainly on the way, given the current 2 Div cost constraint.
  10. Fair point flatout about the extra travel etc but look at it this way, aberdeen does most of its exercises now in Barry B which is where Tayforth do some of theirs so there is no extra traveling then. Since when have Tayforth and Aberdeen flown to competitions. I have been on three competition, two of which Aberdeen and Tayforth where on the same plane and one when we bumped into each other in the Airport.

    If there was a reorg then there is the possibility that stirling would go to glasgow (its nearly closer anyway than st andrews is for them!)
  11. [quote="flatout] Blah Blah Blah[/quote]

    At least someone is talking sense... perhaps we could get you a job at the "Mystery" 8O
  12. Hmmmn?

    Bugger, perhaps I require further training in the correct use of the quote thingy...
  13. if, as you say Jash, Glasgow and Edinburgh were within spitting distance of each other, it is safe to assume that all the inhabitants of Edinburgh would be covered in Weegie spit.
  14. The days of the british army in scotland are numbered anyway(inf cutbacks etc...), i wouldnt be supprised if this government sacked off scotland and made it create its own army.

    If this was the case i wonder if you would get Irn Bru in the rat packs.

    Bet they'd get some shit made up, chocolate like Colin's of England chocolate as well!!!
  15. Does anyone know the current manning levels of scottish UOTC's ?

    I know that Aberdeen did well for recruiting this year and doesn't do too badly for retention, how about the others?

    On a cautionary note the statistics should refelct the "regular attenders" as opposed to the various categories of "hanger-on" that every UOTC unit attracts.

    Oh and to back up Jash's statement about flying, over my many years at AUOTC many personnel flew down to Heathrow on a number of occasions for such events as the REME Comp, Ex. Brief Encounter, Minley, Ex. Lightning Strike, Cross Country Championships etc on a yearly basis.

    The problems began to arise over the previous twelve months when budget related constraints reduced the amount of flights to the various comps. There were still some exceptions to this rule though as pers travelled down to a couple of events by air.

    As flatout stated changes are going to arise soon, and from what I can gather travel by air will virtually dissapear if the trend in UOTC budgets continues.

    Pity we can't bring back those jet-fuelled halcion days...

    Back to the main thread though, the grapevine has produced many rumours about the amalgamation of Scottish UOTC units, the most likely being Tayforth / Aberdeen.

    If this was to happen (God forbid) no doubt there would be a central administration and the various sub units in Aberdeen, Dundee, Stirling and St Andrews.

    Each would have its own specialist theme:

    Dundee - R. Signals,
    St Andrews - Armoured,
    Stirling - Inf
    Aberdeen - R. Engineers / Infantry.

    To avoid further rumour mongering I must re-iterate that this, of course, is only speculation and I personally would not like to see this coming to fruition due to unit loyalty etc.

    Maybe a change in the UOTC Remit as a whole would secure units from the mergers but this seems a rather drastic measure. The question is, does the UOTC still have a valid role within the UK reserve forces?

    Powderkeg lit...........