One Officer for every soldier?

oldbaldy

LE
Moderator
#1
The under-strength and top-heavy Territorial Army has one officer for every four fully-trained soldiers on its books, The Herald can reveal.

The 21,069 part-timers, scattered from the Western Isles to Weymouth, are led by 10 brigadiers, 90 colonels, 340 lieutenant-colonels, 1670 majors, 1890 captains, and 1150 lieutenants, according to Ministry of Defence figures.

The details have emerged on the eve of the announcement of a major restructuring designed to make the reserve forces leaner and readier to deploy on demand in support of overstretched regular units.

Platoons or troops of about 30 men are normally led by second-lieutenants. Companies or squadrons of 100 are commanded by majors, and battalions of between 500 and 600 by lieutenant-colonels. Captains are usually second-in-command of companies or in battalion administrative roles, while colonels and brigadiers are staff officers at higher headquarters. If every senior rank in the TA was in charge of the unit his status indicated, there would be a minimum of between 117,000 and 167,000 reservists and they would far outnumber the regular army's current 98,000 trained soldiers.

One TA veteran told The Herald: "Most of us old-timers joined up to act as a formed reserve against a Soviet invasion of Western Europe. We would have deployed to Germany as complete units alongside our mates in the event of war.

"Now we're a cheap option to plug frontline gaps in the regulars in Afghanistan and Iraq and we deploy as individual replacements or in small groups, but never as entire battalions and seldom as anything even as big as a rifle company."

Sources say the MoD is now seeking to create a reserve force of about 15,000 who could be deployed as needed on six-month combat tours.

TA soldiers can currently escape compulsory mobilisation on the grounds of family or civilian career pressures.
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2126912.0.ta_has_one_officer_for_every_soldier.php
 
#2
Those are the figures on paper and I believe they are from 2005.

How many of them have actually trained in the last 3 months?

It also ignores the fact that Medical units are very 'Officer heavy'.

Watch this space.... I hope to be able to update this graph very shortly, courtesy of the FoI Act.

msr
 

Attachments

#3
oldbaldy said:
The under-strength and top-heavy Territorial Army has one officer for every four fully-trained soldiers on its books, The Herald can reveal.

The 21,069 part-timers, scattered from the Western Isles to Weymouth, are led by 10 brigadiers, 90 colonels, 340 lieutenant-colonels, 1670 majors, 1890 captains, and 1150 lieutenants, according to Ministry of Defence figures.

The details have emerged on the eve of the announcement of a major restructuring designed to make the reserve forces leaner and readier to deploy on demand in support of overstretched regular units.

Platoons or troops of about 30 men are normally led by second-lieutenants. Companies or squadrons of 100 are commanded by majors, and battalions of between 500 and 600 by lieutenant-colonels. Captains are usually second-in-command of companies or in battalion administrative roles, while colonels and brigadiers are staff officers at higher headquarters. If every senior rank in the TA was in charge of the unit his status indicated, there would be a minimum of between 117,000 and 167,000 reservists and they would far outnumber the regular army's current 98,000 trained soldiers.

One TA veteran told The Herald: "Most of us old-timers joined up to act as a formed reserve against a Soviet invasion of Western Europe. We would have deployed to Germany as complete units alongside our mates in the event of war.

"Now we're a cheap option to plug frontline gaps in the regulars in Afghanistan and Iraq and we deploy as individual replacements or in small groups, but never as entire battalions and seldom as anything even as big as a rifle company."

Sources say the MoD is now seeking to create a reserve force of about 15,000 who could be deployed as needed on six-month combat tours.

TA soldiers can currently escape compulsory mobilisation on the grounds of family or civilian career pressures.
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2126912.0.ta_has_one_officer_for_every_soldier.php
Well, where the fuck are they? They're not on the books of my Regt.
 
#4
well my Regt has 1 2LT and 3 LT's (plus one deployed) so they aint hanging about our place
 
#5
The article ignores the obvious fact that if a troop,company or regiment is grossly undermanned it still needs tha same number of officers. A company of 20 men still needs an OC etc. The answer isn't to dispose of officers but to make the TA more attractive to ORs so that enlistment and retention improve.
 
#6
do thoughs figures include the officers that have sacked it and are now on the TARO who have no training commitment or unit
 
#8
Playing with numbers then if each LT they have led a platoon of 25 there would be enough to lose 28,750 ORs somewhere on STANTA. Obviously you'd need to factor in a few captains as specialist platoon commanders, but the bottom end of the command chain seems a little undermanned if anything.

The number of Majors and above seems nuts though. These have to be old soaks kicking about for just the mess fuctions I would think. At least with the TA they only get paid for the days they actually train (or am I naive...?). That sort of data would make much more sense of the figures I would imagine to see what active command structure there was.
 
#9
Think this may be partially due to the TA medical units who are traditionally very officer heavy, though this is (very) slowly starting to change as they don't commission nurses automatically now.
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
balldrick said:
do thoughs figures include the officers that have sacked it and are now on the TARO who have no training commitment or unit
Further still, dos it include Type B Officers who are with the ACF or are NRPS?
 
#11
jockass said:
The number of Majors and above seems nuts though. These have to be old soaks kicking about for just the mess functions I would think.
It's more that people tend to stay in the TA once they're in; those figures ignore the Watchkeeper pools, UOTCs, Regional Training Centres, FTRS, Staff jobs (by the time you've got the courses and experience to be useful, you're probably a Captain at least).

jockass said:
At least with the TA they only get paid for the days they actually train (or am I naive...?).
Nope, you only get paid for when you turn up. :) And as a Major, it's slightly more difficult to hang around the QM's store drinking coffee :) Truth be told, the TA gets a lot of unpaid work out of its people - anyone who believes that all the paperwork gets done on paid time is delusional.
 
#13
Just the Treasury/ MOD softening up the media for a new round of cuts.

As others have noted, this is more a reflection on OR undermanning than Officer over manning.

Also agree, where are all these Officers???????
 
#14
One TA veteran told The Herald....
"Now we're a cheap option to plug frontline gaps in the regulars in Afghanistan and Iraq and we deploy as individual replacements or in small groups, but never as entire battalions and seldom as anything even as big as a rifle company."
a quote paraphrased from something he read on ARRSE yesterday....

Sources say the MoD is now seeking to create a reserve force of about 15,000 who could be deployed as needed on six-month combat tours.
i.e. something he read on ARRSE yesterday....
 
#15
It is indeed difficult to hang about as a Major drinking coffee. There is also a limited amount of time you can spend arguing with PSIs over what training you want to do versus what they are prepared to organise/the unit can support! However there is a constant shortfall in the Regular Army of SQ or at least staff capable officers to fulfill the dull SO2 jobs that make regular officers sign off if appointed to them. As a result there is a clear need to maintain the supply of Capt/Majors for those rank ranged SO2/Watchkeeper type jobs for ops.
 
#16
As a few posters have said - "So what?" They're only being paid if they tip up and Staff Officers from my experience have more restrictions placed on their MTD's than if they were at RD.

You might make some savings on the Bounty Payment. A drop in the financial ocean.

Once past the young thruster stage, officers seem to be actively encouraged into a UOTC/Staff role to give them exposure and a wider focus. If we take those roles away, and all that is left for the TA officer is RD, where does he get the experience and skills to work in a Staff appointment so that he can deploy and compete with his Regular Army counterpart?

I wonder if the Herald is going to post the hierachy for the Regular Army? There have been regular topics in the Officers Forum regarding how many Regular Army officers there are at Lt Col rank and higher.
 
#17
oldbaldy said:
The under-strength and top-heavy Territorial Army has one officer for every four fully-trained soldiers on its books, The Herald can reveal.
So how does one officer for every four soldiers equate to the title of this thread? Methinks thou dost exaggerate for effect?
 
#19
Hootch said:
Just the Treasury/ MOD softening up the media for a new round of cuts.

As others have noted, this is more a reflection on OR undermanning than Officer over manning.

Also agree, where are all these Officers???????
Good point! I've not had a comissioned officer as a PC for at least the last 6 years...
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#20
Maybe they are all at the good units...

OC (DE)
2 IC (DE)
OC Mors (LE)
2 x Pl Comds (DE)

Only poor attender is the 2IC who is rebuilding his own business post tour. Sounds OK to me for a rifle Coy! (although we did have a bad spell a while ago, but thankfully we are through that now.)
 

Similar threads

New Posts

Top