One for the RCT types....

#1
Hi all,

Bit of a random one. Just read this on a surplus vehicle sales website:

What is it about the Russians? They don’t deliberately set out to design looks into something like this. I wonder whether one of Leonardo Fioravanti’s relations was involved. Perhaps he was converted to Vodka. Either way, it’s just a wonder to look at. No surprise, statistics are impressive too, we struggled with diff locks with our wheeled armour. You can imagine what the enemy would have thought of our Stalwarts going into battle. Wondering why they had to stop and do a dance in convoy on the grass every few miles. The Russians got round this problem by just putting another engine and transmission in, problem sorted. You have all wheel diff lock with no grass ‘come dancing’.
Can any old Stally drivers shed some light on the "Come Dancing" thing?
 
#2
Suspension Windup mate ... no honest!

All the Alvis six wheel family (Stolly, Sarrycan & Sally)suffered from a condition where the suspension units would become unbalanced, causing the vehicle to "crab"...

This was particularly bad when the vehicle ran for long periods on long straight, flat roads and got worse as the fleet aged!

There were many cures... jacking up the vehicle so the wheels were off the deck was the quickest, but needed serious craneage. Normal thing was to do some fast cross country across bumpy ground.. ( hence the "grass dancing")

BTW not Ex RCT (ugh, eagh etc...) I had a 'Can in Belfast (SWD) that was prone to this.. used to take out rows of parked cars etc :D
 
#3
If I remember correctly, the Stalwart had permanent 6 wheel drive.

Designed to be High Mobility, ie good cross country, it was found that long distance driving on tarmac caused "wind-up" in the diffs, which eventually failed making it a No Mobility vehicle.

To release the wind up meant either jacking the thing up so all six wheels were off the deck at once(not easy on the side of the autobahn), or taking it for a quick thrashing cross country.

Oddly, never heard of the same problem on Saracen/Saladin, which were the same chassis?
 
#4
oscar1whisky said:
Oddly, never heard of the same problem on Saracen/Saladin, which were the same chassis?
The pre-select gearbox may have had some give in it preventing wind-up. Only downfall was smacked heels if you never pumped the GCP.
 
A

armadillo

Guest
#5
My sergeant showed me how some of the RCT boys did was to make it do a stoppy so the wheels come of the ground. Quite a few crashes but like him he could physically get it up in the air. he was a loony.

I think the saracen did have a similar problem, however I was a NIG at the time and didnt understand it all then.
 
#6
Thanks to the replies so far, I do recollect a Saracen swd failing to take a corner in Belfast and impaling itself into the fascia of a bank; and those GCP's, in a Ferret, could give your left knee a swift smack if you weren't careful.

Back to the OP, I'm familiar with the advert and the advertiser, who also sells more modern versions (BTR series, in this case) updated by the Czechs or Poles to use 1 diesel engine rather than 2 petrol ones.

If the original, 2 engine design was to prevent wind-up, surely modernising to 1 engine would have been a retrograde step? Any Int old & bold know more about this?


Edited once for mong spelling.
 
#7
As an ex Stally and Can (Saracan driver) I recall both suffered from wind up. We didn't do the mileage in the cans (or the speed, they were limited to 30mph because they rolled over a lot)
We took the wind up out of the Saracens with a trolley jack in the LAD as part of our 1st Parade but not daily usually weekly I think . I was in NI in 1975 in Derry where we mainly used PIGS Saracens were mainly used as Ambulances. When I was in Armagh we used Cans on VCP's mainly infantry didn't like them as they were too noisy. Driver manned the 30 cal in the turret.
I drove Stallies in 21 Sqn 4 Div RCT in Duisburg and we treated them with great TLC constant servicing etc. We once drove from Duisburg to Hohne for an exercise and got the lot through with no breakdowns. It was always great fun battering them cross country after a long run the Stally loved it, we always found they responded well if well cared for.
Always remember leavng Hohne fuel depot and the fire alarms going off which was a bit worrying with 250-300 Jerrycans of Benzine on board.
Great days on both vehicles loved them both great days great mates
Sid
 
B

Bottleosmoke

Guest
#8
sidrct said:
As an ex Stally and Can (Saracan driver) I recall both suffered from wind up. We didn't do the mileage in the cans (or the speed, they were limited to 30mph because they rolled over a lot)
We took the wind up out of the Saracens with a trolley jack in the LAD as part of our 1st Parade but not daily usually weekly I think . I was in NI in 1975 in Derry where we mainly used PIGS Saracens were mainly used as Ambulances. When I was in Armagh we used Cans on VCP's mainly infantry didn't like them as they were too noisy. Driver manned the 30 cal in the turret.
I drove Stallies in 21 Sqn 4 Div RCT in Duisburg and we treated them with great TLC constant servicing etc. We once drove from Duisburg to Hohne for an exercise and got the lot through with no breakdowns. It was always great fun battering them cross country after a long run the Stally loved it, we always found they responded well if well cared for.
Always remember leavng Hohne fuel depot and the fire alarms going off which was a bit worrying with 250-300 Jerrycans of Benzine on board.
Great days on both vehicles loved them both great days great mates
Sid
I really hope that that was a wah!
 
#9
Bottleosmoke said:
sidrct said:
As an ex Stally and Can (Saracan driver) I recall both suffered from wind up. We didn't do the mileage in the cans (or the speed, they were limited to 30mph because they rolled over a lot)
We took the wind up out of the Saracens with a trolley jack in the LAD as part of our 1st Parade but not daily usually weekly I think . I was in NI in 1975 in Derry where we mainly used PIGS Saracens were mainly used as Ambulances. When I was in Armagh we used Cans on VCP's mainly infantry didn't like them as they were too noisy. Driver manned the 30 cal in the turret.
I drove Stallies in 21 Sqn 4 Div RCT in Duisburg and we treated them with great TLC constant servicing etc. We once drove from Duisburg to Hohne for an exercise and got the lot through with no breakdowns. It was always great fun battering them cross country after a long run the Stally loved it, we always found they responded well if well cared for.
Always remember leavng Hohne fuel depot and the fire alarms going off which was a bit worrying with 250-300 Jerrycans of Benzine on board.
Great days on both vehicles loved them both great days great mates
Sid
I really hope that that was a wah!
is that because no-one in 21 drove satollys they just knicked them!!!
 
#10
superdriver said:
Bottleosmoke said:
sidrct said:
As an ex Stally and Can (Saracan driver) I recall both suffered from wind up. We didn't do the mileage in the cans (or the speed, they were limited to 30mph because they rolled over a lot)
We took the wind up out of the Saracens with a trolley jack in the LAD as part of our 1st Parade but not daily usually weekly I think . I was in NI in 1975 in Derry where we mainly used PIGS Saracens were mainly used as Ambulances. When I was in Armagh we used Cans on VCP's mainly infantry didn't like them as they were too noisy. Driver manned the 30 cal in the turret.
I drove Stallies in 21 Sqn 4 Div RCT in Duisburg and we treated them with great TLC constant servicing etc. We once drove from Duisburg to Hohne for an exercise and got the lot through with no breakdowns. It was always great fun battering them cross country after a long run the Stally loved it, we always found they responded well if well cared for.
Always remember leavng Hohne fuel depot and the fire alarms going off which was a bit worrying with 250-300 Jerrycans of Benzine on board.
Great days on both vehicles loved them both great days great mates
Sid
I really hope that that was a wah!
is that because no-one in 21 drove stollys they just knicked them!!!
 
B

Bottleosmoke

Guest
#11
superdriver said:
superdriver said:
Bottleosmoke said:
sidrct said:
As an ex Stally and Can (Saracan driver) I recall both suffered from wind up. We didn't do the mileage in the cans (or the speed, they were limited to 30mph because they rolled over a lot)
We took the wind up out of the Saracens with a trolley jack in the LAD as part of our 1st Parade but not daily usually weekly I think . I was in NI in 1975 in Derry where we mainly used PIGS Saracens were mainly used as Ambulances. When I was in Armagh we used Cans on VCP's mainly infantry didn't like them as they were too noisy. Driver manned the 30 cal in the turret.
I drove Stallies in 21 Sqn 4 Div RCT in Duisburg and we treated them with great TLC constant servicing etc. We once drove from Duisburg to Hohne for an exercise and got the lot through with no breakdowns. It was always great fun battering them cross country after a long run the Stally loved it, we always found they responded well if well cared for.
Always remember leavng Hohne fuel depot and the fire alarms going off which was a bit worrying with 250-300 Jerrycans of Benzine on board.
Great days on both vehicles loved them both great days great mates
Sid
I really hope that that was a wah!
is that because no-one in 21 drove stollys they just knicked them!!!
If you wre there man...........................you would know...........
 
#12
I know.......cos I was there!!!!
 

the_boy_syrup

LE
Book Reviewer
#15
I remember som Sarry driver in Cyprus (about 93) painting white diaganal stripes across the whels so the could spot when teh gear was winding up - the stripes would go out of sync
Somebody also told me that one of teh wagons would carry somke railway slepers and they would throw them down and crash over them to unwind the wheels
 
#16
When I first went there Duisburg was 4 Div Transport Regiment then became 3Div in 1976 I think.

4 Div was 6 Artillery Support Sqn, 11 Sqn and 21 Sqn

3 Div was 6 Sqn, 35 Sqn and 21 Sqn

Yes we painted white lines on Cans and Stollies Syrup to spot wind up but always gave them a run out on rough ground to unwind it was more fun never heard of railway sleepers being used
 
#17
Hard to understand why they didn't have centre differentials i.e between the axles. Would have prevented the problem altogether.
 
B

Bottleosmoke

Guest
#18
When I first went there Duisburg was 4 Div Transport Regiment then became 3Div in 1976 I think.

4 Div was 6 Artillery Support Sqn, 11 Sqn and 21 Sqn

3 Div was 6 Sqn, 35 Sqn and 21 Sqn

Yes we painted white lines on Cans and Stollies Syrup to spot wind up but always gave them a run out on rough ground to unwind it was more fun never heard of railway sleepers being used
Well there you go. Every day is a school day!
 
#20
I had the privilege of getting to drive a Stolly x-country twice (both times at Dusiburg) in the late 80's. I even have a very nice scar above my right eye from the first time! There is a great little Stolly site here: stollyfiles with some nice footage on it. The aformentioned white lines on the wheel hubs can be seen quite clearly on some of the vids.
 

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