On the Bus, off the Bus - Regional Brigades to return?

I might be misunderstanding your regionality objection.

There are no simple organisations like district HQs that "happen to be there" any more, just Reactive/Adaptive Force Brigades ready to dash off to war/exercise with subordinate RPOCs doing the eternal boring but essential facility management tasks on local Land Training Areas and Ranges (LTAR), talking to local authorities and trying to engage with communities.

On the UK Ops side, there is now an essential requirement for continual good C2 with CIVPOL the whole time - not just when the Bde isn't on exercise or ops. A fcuk up in this area would not be good

Not sure if anything but a complete cluster could result from centralising on either Andover or Aldershot.
And it is entirely coincident that it provides employment for 100s of SO2 and SO1s who didn't quite make the Command List, yet still want 16+ years of CEA and not really working for a living.
 
And it is entirely coincident that it provides employment for 100s of SO2 and SO1s who didn't quite make the Command List, yet still want 16+ years of CEA and not really working for a living.
That's not life in the RPOCs these days. The staff are over 60% CS and most army are on FTRS or ADC. Further up its a different matter.

The 1*s of the RF/AF Bdes who do have those surpluses of regular SO1&2s probably want shot of the RPOC because there isn't the staff available to cover their very real liabilities, so Bde Comds have the shitty choice of either carrying the can for RPOC deficits (subordinate command remember) or cutting some regular staff across to bail them out (a COA which has its own competency risks inherent with getting punchy regulars involved in "civvy shit").
 
That's not life in the RPOCs these days. The staff are over 60% CS and most army are on FTRS or ADC. Further up its a different matter.

The 1*s of the RF/AF Bdes who do have those surpluses of regular SO1&2s probably want shot of the RPOC because there isn't the staff available to cover their very real liabilities, so Bde Comds have the shitty choice of either carrying the can for RPOC deficits (subordinate command remember) or cutting some regular staff across to bail them out (a COA which has its own competency risks inherent with getting punchy regulars involved in "civvy shit").
In English?
 
And it is entirely coincident that it provides employment for 100s of SO2 and SO1s who didn't quite make the Command List, yet still want 16+ years of CEA and not really working for a living.
Yeah, like the other two services are only full of top tier officers!

The jibes in this post are beneath you - I'm guessing you've never worked in a Regional Brigade or anything similar so perhaps you can be forgiven for thinking they have nothing to do.

Whether you like it or not, the land environment is different to air and sea and brings with it regional responsibilities. Who was it that said do it from Andover? Really? I tell you what, disband the three Services, do away with all the HQs and have every requirement, every task and every order relayed directly from No 10:roll:
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
Yeah, like the other two services are only full of top tier officers!

The jibes in this post are beneath you - I'm guessing you've never worked in a Regional Brigade or anything similar so perhaps you can be forgiven for thinking they have nothing to do.

Whether you like it or not, the land environment is different to air and sea and brings with it regional responsibilities. Who was it that said do it from Andover? Really? I tell you what, disband the three Services, do away with all the HQs and have every requirement, every task and every order relayed directly from No 10:roll:

My regional responsibilities are a quarter of a century ago, but I remain convinced that the Army, in particular, needs to be engaged on a daily basis with local communities, businesses, councils, churches and all that rigmarole, since without it, the Army will die.

I understand, vicariously, that when HQ 1 Div returned from Germany they had no idea of the requirement to involve themselves in the local community (since that was merely a frustrating additional duty in the Vaterland, but a most vital part at home). This is where our new recruits and life-long support are to be found.
 

loopintheP

War Hero
A little bird tells me that the merging of Regional Brigades into Fighty Brigades has not gone terribly well* and that some time soon, these new Regional Points of Command will be split off and called something spiffy innovative like "Districts"...

It's not worth taking money on how long before they re-morph into 1 star brigades - the recent change in standing UK Ops commitments make that almost inevitable.

It does make one wonder how much staff effort and time has been wasted in reorganisations over the years and whether measures like AVANTI ever saved anything?

*Civil engagement, LTAR, ABP, AR/Cadets and Paperclips when screwed up, don't look good on OJARS?
Holy shit, a proper "rumour" on ARRSE, even if its a fookin' depressing indictment of our masters.
 

Alamo

LE
I might be misunderstanding your regionality objection.

There are no simple organisations like district HQs that "happen to be there".
I think you are, I'm afraid that I just dont buy the concept of district HQs, and I'm sorry Bubbles but I just dont buy that the Army has unique requirements either. I stand to be convinced, but "the Army is different" aint cutting it. The other services manage to engage with the UK population without a load of 1* HQs to do it.
 
I think you are, I'm afraid that I just dont buy the concept of district HQs, and I'm sorry Bubbles but I just dont buy that the Army has unique requirements either. I stand to be convinced, but "the Army is different" aint cutting it. The other services manage to engage with the UK population without a load of 1* HQs to do it.
So, had a very quick look at the overhead associated with these Regional Commands. So far I've counted 1 x Maj Gen and 10 x Brig. The "battle rhythm" associated with these headquarters is something to behold.

Frankly, the Army is taking the piss and creating jobs for the boys/CEA.
 
I think you are, I'm afraid that I just dont buy the concept of district HQs, and I'm sorry Bubbles but I just dont buy that the Army has unique requirements either. I stand to be convinced, but "the Army is different" aint cutting it. The other services manage to engage with the UK population without a load of 1* HQs to do it.
Look at 1 area then:
Ranges - despite Stonker's wails of poor usage, the MOD has lots of impact areas that are not oggin, next to civvies that object to rounds falling around them and with a loss of crown immunity, that have onerous insurance requirements. Now bring in a new nature of ammunition (.338 lapua) and require the 1-2 man CS LTAR team to update the paperwork, visit the land owners, review the booking processes and deal with exercising units whoopsies.
Now times the staff/area to be covered by 10 , run it from Andover and throw in weekly funnies like calculating the compensation for a prize ewe(or of great sentimental value -wevs) allegedly run over by an army unit exercising in Kinlochleven.

De-centralised clearing up of such low level stuff was district HQ bread and butter stuff, these are almost back office functions.
Where I do full agree with you is why the hell they were made into 1* Bde HQs with Regular Staff posted in. It would take nearly 2 years for a Comd or his COS to learn the area/ make any headway on OJAR killing issues.
I don't think going back to sleepy hollow district HQs is possible either. Dropping the rank requirement for a regional command/police co-ord role would take a lot of balls given Temperer.
 
It was only a matter of time. I am looking forward to the return of the mighty Wales and Western district (unfortunately we have just sold most of the barracks in Shrewsbury. Bugger), Eastern district et al. Time to dig out those Polar Bears, Macaws and the rest.

I predict we will have 2 star regional divisions within 5 years.

 
Look at 1 area then:
Ranges - despite Stonker's wails of poor usage, the MOD has lots of impact areas that are not oggin, next to civvies that object to rounds falling around them and with a loss of crown immunity, that have onerous insurance requirements. Now bring in a new nature of ammunition (.338 lapua) and require the 1-2 man CS LTAR team to update the paperwork, visit the land owners, review the booking processes and deal with exercising units whoopsies.
Now times the staff/area to be covered by 10 , run it from Andover and throw in weekly funnies like calculating the compensation for a prize ewe(or of great sentimental value -wevs) allegedly run over by an army unit exercising in Kinlochleven.

De-centralised clearing up of such low level stuff was district HQ bread and butter stuff, these are almost back office functions.
Where I do full agree with you is why the hell they were made into 1* Bde HQs with Regular Staff posted in. It would take nearly 2 years for a Comd or his COS to learn the area/ make any headway on OJAR killing issues.
I don't think going back to sleepy hollow district HQs is possible either. Dropping the rank requirement for a regional command/police co-ord role would take a lot of balls given Temperer.
So we're justifying 10 1* on the possibility an Op may happen at some point in the future for a very short period? Brilliant.

Can I be a 1* pse?
 

Alamo

LE
Look at 1 area then:
Ranges - despite Stonker's wails of poor usage, the MOD has lots of impact areas that are not oggin, next to civvies that object to rounds falling around them and with a loss of crown immunity, that have onerous insurance requirements. Now bring in a new nature of ammunition (.338 lapua) and require the 1-2 man CS LTAR team to update the paperwork, visit the land owners, review the booking processes and deal with exercising units whoopsies.
Now times the staff/area to be covered by 10 , run it from Andover and throw in weekly funnies like calculating the compensation for a prize ewe(or of great sentimental value -wevs) allegedly run over by an army unit exercising in Kinlochleven.

De-centralised clearing up of such low level stuff was district HQ bread and butter stuff, these are almost back office functions.
Where I do full agree with you is why the hell they were made into 1* Bde HQs with Regular Staff posted in. It would take nearly 2 years for a Comd or his COS to learn the area/ make any headway on OJAR killing issues.
I don't think going back to sleepy hollow district HQs is possible either. Dropping the rank requirement for a regional command/police co-ord role would take a lot of balls given Temperer.
Couple of points:

A range complex needs n number of people to run it, and they need direction/policy. I don't see what a bunch of 1* organisations sat in the middle bring to the party.

I agree sleepy hollow district HQs are not required, but then I don't believe that any are. Agree that liaison with civil agencies is required (which the RAF does extensively, from within hide), but the phrase "learn the area/ make any headway on OJAR killing issues" gives the game away A. It's not your area, and B. OJAR moments, really???

As an aside, an unkind person could offer the view that the reason the Army is so c**tstruck by Temperer is it's a way to justify force structure and retain relevance. I, of course, would not be such a person.
 
Ok so you need a few people:
- to run local ranges and lands etc.
- do local engagement
- local ops (if the Bde hasn't deployed all it troops because otherwise they are just a POC)
- a POC for cadets and all that type of thing, etc etc

So you have your deployable regional Bde HQ and you just add cells to some of the G branches. These guys will stay at home if the Bde is deployed.

Example 1 SO & 1 Staff NCO for each of the above within the appropriate cell
 

Latest Threads

Top