On Killing

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Flagrantviolator, Dec 25, 2007.

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  1. Merry Christmas all! Just got the book "On Killing" by Lt.col Dave grossman. Anyone read it? Any thoughts?
  2. Haven't read it myself but a mucker of mine rates it. Good reviews below as well:

  3. There was programme on Channel 4 about this a year or so ago. Very good, it went into depth about how the Yanks were trying to make it more acceptable for their blokes to kill as apparently most of them were missing their targets.
  4. Trip_Wire

    Trip_Wire RIP

    LTC Dave Grossman's BIO

    The BIO doesn't mention any specific battle or wars that LTC Grossman took part in. I haven't read the book; however, the reviews that I read, didn't really make me want to run out and buy it.

    Many US Officers attend the Ranger course and/or the Basic Airborne course; however, there is a vast difference, in serving in an Airborne Ranger BN or even an Airborne unit, than just attending those courses.

    At one time it was a requirement that all new officers attend one or both of these courses.

  5. In a nutshell it is all about passing the buck.

    Soldiers open fire when told to. "In your own time, go on." "section, 200 etc."

    Soldiers are in a group so shifting the blame, maybe it wasn't my round that killed old Abdul even though he was trying to kill me.

    The closer you get to a target the harder this becomes as we start recognising the human form and to 98% of the population killing our own species is a bad thing. 2% love it or are indifferent to it.

    We get round this in training by using targets that are identifiable human shapes Fig. 11 and Fig. 12 and getting soldiers to associate hitting the target with a good feeling. "Targets will fall when hit!" and "Fecking good shot Pte Snodgrass! Do it again!"

    Not bad as a read. Quite informative.

    Goes from long range (sniper pair with equal blame) and crew served weapons (shared blame) through rifle fire, pistol, bayonet (apparently the germans preferred turning the rifle around and using it as a club than thrusting cold steel in to the En chest cavity) to knife (not well documented, massive pscological hang ups, christheclimber take note) this being 'sexual range'.
  6. I saw the TV documentary based on the book(or was it the other way around?). I remember one of the lines: "After six months on the front line, 98% of soldiers were suffering from battle fatigue. The other 2% were psychopaths. They were having the time of their lives."
  7. I read a great book some years ago (1993) called 'Scars of War' by Hugh McManners (Captain in 148 Commando as a Forward Arty Observer and SBS during the Falklands War). The book was a study of psychological reactions to combat, based on his own experiences and using statistical data from psych research.

    One of the interesting things he spoke about was how few men actually fired their weapon in contact. Of those interviewed, many who did fire their weapons said that they hadn't been aiming at anything in particular when they did so.

    What I particularly liked about the book was the way it studied the aftermath. If someone had killed someone else (or tried to), then how did they cope with the guilt afterwards? Cracking book - recommneded to complement 'On Killing.'
  8. Wonderful book. Some of the data he depended on has been found wanting (not his fault) but overall really something everyone in the military or interested in military history ought to read.
  9. Trip_Wire

    Trip_Wire RIP

    It seems to me, that I recall, such remarks made about soldiers in WW II, by BG S.L.A. Marshall, an Army historian.



    A Quote:

    “Marshall claimed that the majority of U.S. combat troops never fired their personal weapons, even when they were engaged in combat and under direct threat. Marshall argued that the United States Army should devote significant training resources to increase the percentage of soldiers willing to engage the enemy with direct fire.”

    Another good read of his and COL David H. Hackworth is his 'Vietnam Primer — Lessons Learned.'

  10. this could only come from a yank the land of the free home of the brave sorry lads many years ago me and my mate was listening to this blood thirsty septic how he went hunting bears with a bow and arrow even after putting 4 arrows inthe bear he had to finish it off with a big handgun perhaps someone could explain the logic when the dead was necessary the dead was done and no one woops it up or cries like a girl when his mate gets it if you have to do it your job after all terry taliban will probably cut your balls off as well i never find my self surrounded by people asking about the deed its definitely a yank thing usualyblokes with small dicks
  11. Anyone care to translate this run-on sentence into something akin to the English language to include anything remotely close to proper grammatical structure?
  12. I've just tried but gave up when i got a third of the way through. Maybe the bloke is on crack!
  13. There we go, sorry, bored stiff at work and had feck all to do.
  14. :D

    Sorry you had to work today.
  15. My punctuation and grammar is better!

    ........ and i'm a thick Para! :)