Discussion in 'Royal Signals' started by G3Ops, Mar 21, 2005.
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Well, I think the thumping behind the garages worked for me, was a bit gobby and stroppy, Spud Murphy sorted me out quick time.
Dont think it would work in the army today, after all, I was a child of the fifties and corporal punishment was still allowed.
But lets face it, if the troop screw cant get anyone into shape in barracks, what chance has he in a combat situation?
Todays culture has changed, no getting away from it, but if you end up behind the garages, the chances are you are going to bubble someone for it.
I would also like to point out, I didn't see it as bullying, just an old fashioned sorting out, infact, in my 12 years I never came across any bullying whatsoever, maybe it is not so prevalent in the Corps
This could turn into a good thread i'd like to see where this goes. As one of the "new school" (Joined jan 99) i've been told many times about the old school. I've also been on the recieving end where i ended up pinned against the wall by a senior. Many of the younger (than me) lads came upto me and asked "you not gonna report him for doing that". My response was no i was out of line and when the senior in question came up to me in the bar later to apologise i told him to shut up i was being a d!ck and deserved it then i bought him a beer and no more was said. That worked because i was man enough to accept it and get over it. If this is an example of the old school way then yes i feel this is acceptable. The problem arises with different perceptions of this. Personally i feel taking the guy round the back and giving him a good shoeing is out of order but giving him a quick dig for being a d!ck acceptable. Would certainly help sort out a few of the attitude problems where full strength kickings would probably lose us some good soldiers who just need that little bit of persuasion.
I've recently heard of 2 fantastic operators who would have gone a long way in the old school had they been given a few digs to sort out there attitude but unfortunatley the system let them get out of hand and binned them. A prime example of the new school failing where the old school would have probably worked.
I joined the infantry in '84 and on day 3 was taken behind a 6 foot wall on the assault course and threatened with a good old smack for not trying hard enough with a telegraph pole under the barbed wire crawl.
Got a good kicking in the Brecons for something I don't even remember but when I re-badged to Sigs basic training was a doddle after that.
When posted to Germany I saw nothing that could even faintly be construed as bullying - everyone just got on with it. Maybe the '80s were a period in between old school and present day?
I got plenty of "old Skool" kickings all the time by cpls/seniors as a sprog, all it made me was a more disgruntled soldier more prone to w**k in their tea. I'm now an instructor at RSS and I find that if you actually talk to phase 2's as adults and not "spoilt little cnuts" they actually do as you tell 'em, learn, and actually respect you.
Right where do you start? Well let me start by saying that I joined the corps in 1982 at Ouston. Went on to train as an RTG (God's right hand men).
So through the 80's the corps was terrific. The majority wanted to be there, enjoyed what we did and respected the troop Staffies and Sgts cause they, usually, were good at there job and would come to your aid on excercise when you had problems to help you out. From the old and bold of that time, I was happy to get to odd "slap" when I err'd. Because the "slap" was always followed by a this is how you do it. Result, I learned from my mistakes and a cuff to the lugs is an effective memory trigger.
I do not in any way advocate a shoeing. That is just being nasty. But I have no problem with a cuff or a slap.
Now lets move onto more recent times. I do believe that society has changed, consider the attitude of your grandparents to your parents and then to your own. You will notice that we have all changed, not for the better or the worse, things have just changed. Priorities have shifted.
Over recent years, the "motivation" that I received would not have been appropriate or effective with generations after mine. So they no longer can be used.
I finished my career in the corps in Radex Tp in Blandford. I am sure that will cause a few comments, however all of my colleagues in that troop at that time, knew that we had to find ways to motivate the students. The buttons to push now are different to twenty years ago, different to ten years ago. So my message to all those still in the corps is, if you are in a position of power/responsibilities, ask yourself how do I motivate my staff. What can I do to encourage them to do better, to do the job in hand. For those younger members of the corps who are disenchanted and may often take recourse to reviewing their "rights" before getting on with it. Remember that it is called the Armed "SERVICES". Emphasis on the service.
I was never a sigs guy and have not had any service experience beyond '74. However, I can relate my parental record re changes. My first two kids were born quite close together in late/mid '50s. We had a further two in late '60s.
What had worked with the first two did not work on the second two. The eldest kids did as they were told because they knew they would be punished if they did not. No physical action - no special outings, sent to bedroom etc. With the younger children as they grew, punishment did not seem to work at all. Everything had to be explained in detail with reasons. Just the fact that a parent said something did not work. We, as parents, had to adjust. We could have given up but found a way to get decent kids by other methods.
Like your reply, Old Red Cap, I come from a split generation family, my older brother and I gots loads of punishment, physical as well as other methods, it was just the way it was in the early 50s, my younger brother and sister, nothing at all.
My brother phrased it as, Frank and Liz are family, Me and Jimmy are just fashion accessories.
I laughed my Arrse off at that one
i think the Aggi67 system has come in now and replaced the 'old skool' ways.
But then i still look and some of the guys that have survived from the old skool and wonder how the fcuk they managed to survive without having there teeth put in open order every five minutes.
Or maybe thats people changing as rank / promotion has gone to thier heads.
I think it would be alot harder to be an instructor in a training enviroment now than what it was in the 80's and early 90's. Purley because of the ARMY's attitude towards recruits and the still very fine line between beneficial training and bullying.
G 3 This is a VERY good Thread - Pse try and get an upgrade (if there is such a thing !!)
Old School - relative !! lets wait until the Deepcut review comes out !! every one of u s has this debate - I have now served 17 Yrs - not being funnny but I think I'm old c-school..lets face it Black people are.........black and woemen are weaker )(generally) than men not PC but FACT............. so do not cloud issues with pish .stick to fact .........lots of facts on this and other threads.if you can't stand the heat thaen fcuk off out of the kitchen
Anyway.good thread pse raise profile
How many nights in various NAAFIs has this conversation taken place!! Nice one G3 but I believe it all revolves around one issue.
I am not old school or nu skool for that matter! I joined over 20 yrs ago and am still around and the only thing that has changed, as someone has already mentioned, is respect. I genuinely respected my elders when I joined. These guys, in the majority, wanted to be there, enjoyed Army life and encouraged others around them.
If you made a mistake as a sprog your Det Comdr gave you a clip round the ear, BUT, showed you what you had done wrong. And you learned, not only the error of your ways, but also that when you were in a position of power (however small, LCpl!) you should do the same. Pass on your knowledge and most importantly EARN respect from those around you.
Now there were always the few muppets who somehow got promoted and didnt pass on their experiences or knowledge but they had no respect. Either for others or from others so were generally ignored and sidelined. As a sprog, if you show respect you very soon found you fitted in, not so these days.
It is this lack of respect that has infected the Army as well as society. Some, not all, new soldiers don't respect thier teachers, the police, SNCO or JNCO, in fact anyone in authority. They dont even respect thier peers and so end up not fitting in, saying the Army is crap and generally being a pain in the arse.
We (the Army) should be more robust in instilling respect. Respect for rank (people being called Sir if they merit it, standing if an officer/WO walks into the room etc), and for authority in general. If we did this maybe we would have an Old School army again
Sorry for the rant btw
When i was at school they wrote on blackboards. Now they have got interactive whiteboards.
C'mon Guys and Gals, What exactly is old school???
Is it somebody who is a bully, shouts all day long, takes your weekends away from you etc etc ??
Or is it somebody who goes to bed sha**ging the Corps Flag??
Times have changed and it is tough sh*ite!! Stoneage ways that worked in the 60s, 70s, 80s were part and parcel of life at that time. If you still think thats how people should be treated then you need to change your head Worzel.
Service personnel coming in to the Armed Forces now are shaping our future Army. This cant be helped, no matter how loud you shout. Rather than moaning about it, stop being so long in the tooth and adapt and change YOUR ways and give some of these kids a chance. Agreed. there are a lot of dross coming through the system, but I bet there was just as much dross in the "good old days". Stop living in the past and start looking to the future, you never know one, of you dinasours might learn something from some of these kids. KEEP AN OPEN MIND!!!!!!
I think this is on of the most important things to take in mind here. The system that worked is discipline then correct. where the soldier was fcuked up was gripped then taught how to do it proper. Think back to marchiung into your SSM's office you did it badly he gripped you then made you do it again, properly. The system today seems to be use the discipline to correct leaving the soldier unwilling to do it properly because the last time he did it was as a punishment.
I dont think that giving someone a dig or not is the answer but maybe that type of discipline led to showing the correct way to do it.
A slapping for screwing up - You look a tw@t, but you will remember it.
AGAI67 - Extra work details, you get pi$$ed off and sign off
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