OK wheres the con?

#1
Today I heard from a colleague, that under JPA arrangements our monthly salary will be calculated differently. At the moment we get our daily rate multiplied by the number of days in the month...easy. Under the new scheme we will get our annual salary divided by 12, minus deductions, paid into our accounts each month.

Somewhere there is a con!

Somehow I will get paid less, or.. not as much more (as per pay 2000) as I would have been paid under the old scheme.

It's not the number of days balance between the first and second half of the financial year, probably not even leap years, but I know it's in there somewhere. There is no way the MOD would go to all the expense of re-jigging the whole system if they weren't making money out of it.

Anyone have any ideas where the con is?

Baggy
 
#2
like you say mate its a con, the employ people to figre it out then hide it from us. until 2 years down the line when we are all still compaining and then they will say its to late to sort it.

glasgow is run by a load of dawfts the cant do simple maths.
 
#3
Looks like you will get 30.416 days pay every month, including february. 30.5 days in the leap year.
 
#4
Its a scheme the Navy and the RAF have used for years - Saves everyone having a terrible month in March - when you have 31 days and only 28 days pay. Think they way it works with the RAF and the NAVY is they get 30 days pay for January and March, thus being able to get 30 days pay for February. So maybe not such a rip off, just a plan to save average Joe Squaddie overdraft fees for March!
 
#5
Sluice_dweller said:
Saves everyone having a terrible month in March - when you have 31 days and only 28 days pay
Sluice_dweller said:
just a plan to save average Joe Squaddie overdraft fees for March!
Surely, people can't be this bad with their money?
 
#6
Welcome to the modern world gents. It's how civvy firms have paid staff for years.
 
#8
StabTiffy2B said:
Sluice_dweller said:
Saves everyone having a terrible month in March - when you have 31 days and only 28 days pay
Sluice_dweller said:
just a plan to save average Joe Squaddie overdraft fees for March!
Surely, people can't be this bad with their money?
You'd be surprised - I know people who manage to drink their entire wage packet in the first ten days! So realistically this isn't going to help them, but its not an uncommon phenomena for people to be counting up the coppers towards the end of the month.
 
#9
It's not a con.

The problems are going to occur when someone is promoted 'in year' and their pay has to then be re-computed across the balance of the year. Anyone who thinks this is going to just 'happen' magically is seriously deluded.

I have to say that I actually think JPA is a wonderful idea. All those people who queue up to slag the SPS people off are going to have a very nasty surprise in around a year's time...
 
#10
Litotes said:
Oh yes, they can! It is surprising how the use of the cookhouse increases as the month draws to a close.
Litotes
Sluice_dweller said:
You'd be surprised - I know people who manage to drink their entire wage packet in the first ten days! So realistically this isn't going to help them, but its not an uncommon phenomena for people to be counting up the coppers towards the end of the month.
I know that some guys tend to broke and eat in the cookhouse more, at the end of the month, but if you can't budget for february being shorter than March, should you really be in her Majesties fighting forces?

How will this effect the TA? Would couldn't get our average pay each month so will we continue to be paid on a days basis?
 
#11
Sluice_dweller said:
Its a scheme the Navy and the RAF have used for years
Not true for the RAF (unfortunately). We got stung for the 28 days pay at the end of Feb just like you guys. The reason for the change is that the Oracle system that JPA runs from is civvy based and therefore works on an annual salary rather than a daily rate. Representative daily rates are still printed (ie annual salary divided by 365.25) and I don't believe that I am being ripped off. Well, i wouldn't be if I did actually get that amount of money, but the 'JPA is rubbish' thread is elsewere!
 
#12
StabTiffy2B said:
I know that some guys tend to broke and eat in the cookhouse more, at the end of the month, but if you can't budget for february being shorter than March, should you really be in her Majesties fighting forces?
What planet are you from? Have you ever actually worked with some of our squaddies? I can give you many examples of sheer financial stupidity that I've witnessed in my 12 years in, but to name a few:

A soldier who thought that when he ran out of cheques in his cheque book he ran out of money.
A soldier who bought a car on finance at 40.7 APR!!!
A soldier who had more outgoings than income before food and drink.

The list is endless...

These changes can only be a good thing. If some of our denser toms know exactly how much money they will get each and every month they stand a fighting chance of not ending up in a world of debt.
 
#13
1/4 days surely!

But back on thread:- its not a con, but as D_D indicated, there may be some wrinkles as individuals rates change on promotion or termination, but then the individual will probably have a "bigger picture" to consider, rather than the pennys either way.

D_D, Are you looking forward to seeing lots of SNCOs/WOs wanting to 252 the IT terminals with dumb insolence?
 
#14
civvygit said:
Looks like you will get 30.416 days pay every month, including february. 30.5 days in the leap year.
That's it! It's bloody leap years! They're making all their money on leap years! Every year you're going to get your annual salary, will it go up by 1/365th every 4 years? Will it buggery.

Start the cry now for a 'down tools' on 29/2/2008!
 
#15
The Navy use the 30/30/30 for Jan/Feb/Mar based on what we used to call the 30 Day Drawing Rate. Going back many years to manual pay statements and the steam-driven computer in Centurion, we used to have to write them by hand, and they were based on a 30 Day Drawing Rate, with additions and subtractions being made on a monthly basis. It was easier to apply 30 Day DRs to additional pay rather than messing around with 31/28/31 (from the Centurion computer point of view). Of course, those were the days we had to balance the account with what Centurion printed on the basic statement to get a Net State of Account, and we calculated NI and Tax based on those figures as well.

Sad, and I am still serving, that I remember doing it this way. So much more personal, we used to write proper explanations on Pay Statements, deliver them around units, and hold Pay Clinics as we handed out the statements. Took around three days to calculate pay for a ship of 240+, but it took about a week to deliver them all - too much beer to be drunk during clinics!
 
#16
I know this will be really dull for some people but I've worked it out.

The way the days fall in the financial year means that at the end of most months the military will owe you money that you don't get back until later. Effectively witholding pay you are due. The average number of days in a month is 30.42 (ish), which means that the following is true:

Apart from April, Jun and February, the army will have witheld money I have earned, keeping it in their bank earning interest and not in mine doing the same. By October, mid way through the financial year, I am over a day's pay out, and by the end of January I am 1.83 days' pay short. Admittedly it all evens out at the end of Feb, but this small amount rolling up over the preceding months is considerable. (Reminds me a bit of Superman 3). Work now; we'll pay you later!

These figures really are rule of thumb; but if the average serviceperson earns about 70 pounds per day, and there are about 200,000 of us; then the MOD is 25.67 million quid up at the end of January. If they like they can pay everybodys' wages into my account; I'll see they get 30.42 days pay each month, and I'll collect the interest each month on the money saved.

Have fun with the numbers.

Baggy
 

oldbaldy

LE
Moderator
#17
PompeySailor said:
So much more personal, we used to write proper explanations on Pay Statements, deliver them around units, and hold Pay Clinics as we handed out the statements. Took around three days to calculate pay for a ship of 240+, but it took about a week to deliver them all - too much beer to be drunk during clinics!
Oh the happy days of answering pay queries in the Battery/Sqn bar & then trying to decipher my notes next day in the office. :D
 
#18
StabTiffy2B said:
Sluice_dweller said:
Saves everyone having a terrible month in March - when you have 31 days and only 28 days pay
Sluice_dweller said:
just a plan to save average Joe Squaddie overdraft fees for March!
Surely, people can't be this bad with their money?
8O Have you never met anyone who has been overdrawn even after the pay has gone into the bank?

I managed it a couple of times when I was a young singly. :oops:

Never underestimate the stupidity of young people.
 
#19
:) My agreed over draft was £2500, I lived close to that most months, money went in at end of month put me back to zero or slightly in credit, then off we go again :) And I was a Higher Band Warrant Officer. Luckily life is rosier now and lump sum has sorted everything out :)
 
#20
greenbaggyskin said:
I know this will be really dull for some people but I've worked it out.

The way the days fall in the financial year means that at the end of most months the military will owe you money that you don't get back until later. Effectively witholding pay you are due. The average number of days in a month is 30.42 (ish), which means that the following is true:

Apart from April, Jun and February, the army will have witheld money I have earned, keeping it in their bank earning interest and not in mine doing the same. By October, mid way through the financial year, I am over a day's pay out, and by the end of January I am 1.83 days' pay short. Admittedly it all evens out at the end of Feb, but this small amount rolling up over the preceding months is considerable. (Reminds me a bit of Superman 3). Work now; we'll pay you later!

These figures really are rule of thumb; but if the average serviceperson earns about 70 pounds per day, and there are about 200,000 of us; then the MOD is 25.67 million quid up at the end of January. If they like they can pay everybodys' wages into my account; I'll see they get 30.42 days pay each month, and I'll collect the interest each month on the money saved.

Have fun with the numbers.

Baggy
You bastard. I just wasted twenty minutes working all this out on a spreadsheet to figure out that each individual soldier will lose about £1.60 per year in interest payments (the MOD will be £320,833.33 better off - asuuming 5% interest rates all round).

Its obviously all a massive conspiracy to deprive the Toms of their hard earned cash.

Pay_Mistri
 
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