Oh dear, so the GDR really wasn't nice then ?

For those of a curious bent, who'd like to understand more about the "East German psyche", a book by Wolfgang Engler entitled: "Die Ostdeutschen: Kunde von einem verlorenen Land" and published by the Aufbau Verlag is just the job. It goes from the foundation of the GDR to when it finally broke up. The book also examines the gradual development and changes in the "East German psyche" in the light of social processes and how the various groupings within society interpreted them and the influence, sometimes reciprocal, they had on the "group thinking of the country". It's a bit of a heavy read in places, but all the more worthwhile because of that. I can highly recommend it.

MsG

@DaManBugs , is it about Stockholm syndrome?
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
Bugsy,

I'm not basing it on anything by any author. I am basing it on having actually visited the place, and its museum. You only have to see the 'U-Boot' cells in the basement, and read the testimonies of the prisoners held there to realise that it is a concentration camp.

It meets all of the descriptions:

Close confinement in isolation.
Interrogation cells.
Poor diet.
Little medical facilities, and some of these were used for torture.
Specifically placing persons classed as enemies of the state in the place, but no ordinary criminal prisoners.
Not permitting outside contact.
No legal representation.
Extra-judicial hearings, that actually broke German law.
Hard labour work.

These are the descriptions of both Dachau and Hohenschonhausen, so how can this place be anything other than a concentration camp?
I wasn’t actually referring to the books that your man Knabe there has published (as he is an author), but rather to the fact that he’s the director of the place.

I’ve also been there for a visit. I was accompanied actually by ex-Stasi Major Eberhard Steinberg, who was a serving officer in the prison from 1972 until it was shut in 1989/90. We both listened to the guide as he waffled on about all the torture, suicides, summary executions and the rest, with Eberhard actually giving me the real version.

The first point is the “U-Boot” cells in the basement. They were allegedly used by the NKVD when they were running the place, but never by the Stasi. In fact, the Stasi never used the cells in the basement at all, considering them too small. Instead, they housed prisoners in newly built wings.

There’s another important point about the “U-Boot” cells. No-one remembers them. Neither the Stasi personnel who served there, nor any of the many prisoners who were banged up, which is strange considering that they’d be the first ones to make them public. They were actually rebuilt according to the rough drawings of a former Nazi who was imprisoned there and there's even a stamp on his sketches with "1990". In addition, your man Knabe there dismisses the dire lack of actual witnesses with the rather implausible explanation that: “they probably didn’t survive the torture”.

The complete records of Hohenschönhausen have been preserved, not that your man Knabe would ever allow you to have a butcher’s at them (and I believe they’re now in the Stasi Archive). What’s notable is that, in spite of the complete, and meticulous, records being available and with many first-hand witness accounts of former prisoners, not one single Stasi employee at Hohenschönhausen was ever indicted for any crime. How do you explain that?

For me, the railway carriage out in the yard was a bit of a giveaway. It’s supposed to conjure up images of the prisoners being carted to the nick in much the same way as the poor Jews were transported to the various execution camps. The trouble is that Hohenschönhausen was never connected to any railway lines in the whole of its existence.

I mean, there’s no doubt that it was a terrible place, but to compare it to a concentration camp on the flawed word and biased information of a West German by the name of Knabe (the director with a mission) is taking things a bit too far, in my opinion.

MsG
 
Post-war the Stasi re-stocked Sachsenhausen concentration camp with new 'enemies of the state*' in association with their NKVD mentors and took over running the camp in 1950, They sent the usual victims there and a few Nazis that wouldn't work for them.....

"By the time the camp was closed in the spring of 1950, at least 12,000 (additional victims) had died of malnutrition and disease (under Soviet and Stasi control)"

But Bugsy's not bothered, it's not as if he's ever fanatically defended a corrupt murderous state that conducted 'fascism lite' against its own citizens under the banner of 'socialism'

*One such enemy of the state was a German 14 year old girl, whose crime was to add some colour to the large portrait of Stalin that had replaced a similar photo of Hitler that was hanging in her classroom

In three East German prisons, including a former Nazi concentration camp, she was repeatedly raped, starved and beaten. Finally she was forced to endure a mock mass extermination in a gas chamber.**
**Because the Germans, both Nazi and East Germans, were sticklers for giving their crimes a layer of legitimacy (see the DDR Borderguard 'shoot to kill' authorisation/justification) I don't think there were any gas chambers on pre-1937 Reich territory - even so, sorry Bugs, you can't use that to try and de-legitimise her story - There's a room in the basement of the morgue that looks as if it 'might' have been used for that purpose. (I saw it in 1990)

Torture memoirs revive horrors of communism

https://scholar.utc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1052&context=honors-theses
 
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I’ve also been there for a visit.
Of course you have. There is nowhere on earth that you haven't graced with your presence... is there?

I was accompanied actually by ex-Stasi Major Eberhard Steinberg, who was a serving officer in the prison from 1972 until it was shut in 1989/90.
Of course you was.

We both listened to the guide as he waffled on about all the torture, suicides, summary executions and the rest...
Of course you did.

... with Eberhard actually giving me the real version.
Of course he did. If we assume that this chappie really exists/existed and that he really spoke at length with a scruffy smelly pigeon shouter we can safely say that he had no vested interested in painting the Stasi whiter than white did he... no sir, no vested interest at all.

Oh by the way, Major Steinberg called... he said that you are a lying cunt.
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
Post-war the Stasi re-stocked Sachsenhausen concentration camp with new 'enemies of the state*' in association with their NKVD mentors and took over running the camp in 1950, They sent the usual victims there and a few Nazis that wouldn't work for them.....

"By the time the camp was closed in the spring of 1950, at least 12,000 (additional victims) had died of malnutrition and disease (under Soviet and Stasi control)"

But Bugsy's not bothered, it's not as if he's ever fanatically defended a corrupt murderous state that conducted 'fascism lite' against its own citizens under the banner of 'socialism'

*One such enemy of the state was a German 14 year old girl, whose crime was to add some colour to the large portrait of Stalin that had replaced a similar photo of Hitler that was hanging in her classroom



**Because the Germans, both Nazi and East Germans, were sticklers for giving their crimes a layer of legitimacy (see the DDR Borderguard 'shoot to kill' authorisation/justification) I don't think there were any gas chambers on pre-1937 Reich territory - even so, sorry Bugs, you can't use that to try and de-legitimise her story - There's a room in the basement of the morgue that looks as if it 'might' have been used for that purpose. (I saw it in 1990)

Torture memoirs revive horrors of communism

https://scholar.utc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1052&context=honors-theses
Tragic, Maypole. Reellee terry bull.

How was your day otherwise, mush?

MsG
 
Steinberg Eberhard
Pablo-Neruda-Str. xx, 12559 Berlin
Telefon 030 6 54 29 xx

He says Hi, and when are you going to tell the truth about the DDR?

You've had numerous chances to
a. Come up with something better than maypole
b. face the truth

Now what exactly are you complaining about? Are you saying the Stasi had nothing to do with running their own KZ or that Erika Riemann 's story is a lie?

Here's the link again
Torture memoirs revive horrors of communism

or would you prefer a German language link? I think you might speak German, but i'm not sure.....
Erika Riemann – Wikipedia

In three East German prisons, including a former Nazi concentration camp, she was repeatedly raped, starved and beaten. Finally she was forced to endure a mock mass extermination in a gas chamber.
 
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DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
Steinberg Eberhard
Pablo-Neruda-Str. xx, 12559 Berlin
Telefon 030 6 54 29 xx

He says Hi, and when are you going to tell the truth about the DDR?
Tell him when I get round to it.:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

MsG
 
The complete records of Hohenschönhausen have been preserved,
Like most of your post #722 (a quite remarkable work of fiction, even by your standards) this is wrong.
Unlike many of the former DDR government buildings, Hohenschonhausen prison complex was not ransacked by demonstrators. This allowed plenty of time for the prison authorities to destroy much of the evidence relating to the prison.
That is why, if you read any accounts of the prison, they are from eye witness testimony. Funnily enough none of the guards to date have seen fit to add to the testimony. maybe you should get your Stasi mate Major Bezzer to write a book!
 
You''re absolutely correct. It also doesn't alter the fact that the equally corrupt Capitalist system was actually imposed on the West Germans by former Nazis who'd been reinstated in their pre-war and war-time functions. All of which was exposed by the East Germans in the 1950s with their highly embarrassing "Nazi Black Book".

MsG
Yes I remember the Hamburg airlift. We were terrible, we decided to use the population as hostage. I do however recaa Labour Government sending back Cossacks to be shot by the very people they had been fighting against because they happened to be on the wrong side. Very egalitarian that. Keep twisting ya fool.
 
For those of a curious bent, who'd like to understand more about the "East German psyche", a book by Wolfgang Engler entitled: "Die Ostdeutschen: Kunde von einem verlorenen Land" and published by the Aufbau Verlag is just the job. It goes from the foundation of the GDR to when it finally broke up. The book also examines the gradual development and changes in the "East German psyche" in the light of social processes and how the various groupings within society interpreted them and the influence, sometimes reciprocal, they had on the "group thinking of the country". It's a bit of a heavy read in places, but all the more worthwhile because of that. I can highly recommend it.

MsG
A Book you say. It can be summed up thus. "Survival"
 
That is why, if you read any accounts of the prison, they are from eye witness testimony. Funnily enough none of the guards to date have seen fit to add to the testimony. maybe you should get your Stasi mate Major Bezzer to write a book!
How dare you question the words of Bugs? - he was there, November 9th 1989.......oh no, wait, he wasn't........still, I'm sure he knows better than everyone else what happened around the Stasi, he was a IM for God's sake

FYI Bugs, if you meet-up regularly with ex-Stasi men it means they consider you a 'source, they're not really your friends, they just can't break the habit of running IMs
 

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