Oh dear, so the GDR really wasn't nice then ?

DaManBugs

On ROPS
On ROPs
Book Reviewer
Threads on ARRSE have titles for a reason. It’s so that a specific subject can be discussed and folks get to read other opinions and information that helps them to better understand events and incidents and to widen their viewpoint. It might even prompt them to revise their own opinions in light of contributions made by other ARRSErs. Conspicuously absent from practically all thread titles is any addition stating: “Turn this thread into another “Bugsy-bashing” fest”.

I can well understand that the ARRSE vermin have an intense desire to work off their personal frustration at their own inadequacies, but their stupid and inane remarks continually derail the thread and put off others who have a genuine interest in the subject.

The title of this (resurrected) thread is: “Oh dear, so the GDR really wasn't nice then?” It’s formulated as a question and is a statement with which I disagree. So what’s the situation on the thread now?

On the one hand there’s me. I argue, and have always argued, that normal everyday life in the GDR was far superior to what we normally experience in Capitalist countries. The reason I state that is because GDR citizens never had to deal with the soul-destroying anxieties and worries that are part and parcel of the societies in which we live. They never had to worry about having no money to pay their bills at the end of each month. They never had to worry that they were going to suddenly find themselves homeless and destitute. They never had to worry that their children weren’t going to receive an outstanding education and they never had to worry that they wouldn’t receive treatment if they were sick. They also had far more democracy in the workplace than would ever be possible, or even tolerated, in any other society. In short, they had a profound peace of mind completely unknown to folks in the US, UK or other Capitalist nations.

All that meant that they were, in the literal sense of the word, “carefree”. It meant that they could pursue their personal cultural interests to a very high degree. It meant that their minds were free to follow creative ideas and thoughts that folks in our societies have no time for because they’re fully occupied with the constant, desperate struggle for existence.
What I’ve never done is to defend in any way the profoundly undemocratic GDR regime, because it was shite. I’ve also never defended the barbaric GDR border policy, or the oppressive Stasi state organ in its role as the “eyes and ears” (Schild und Schwert) of the regime. I’ve also never once described the GDR as a “Socialist paradise”, because it was never that.


On the other hand (or “team”), there are those who’ve maybe spent a day-trip in East Berlin or East Germany. There are far more who’ve simply read or heard the boundless propaganda about the GDR and have condemned it out of hand, but have spent no time whatsoever in the country and made no effort to inform themselves either about the GDR in particular, or Socialism in general.

Then again, there are a few ARRSErs who really did spend considerable time in East Germany; first and foremost the former members of BRIXMIS, @RoofRat and @Brotherton Lad. However, as far as I’m aware, I’m the only ARRSEr who actually lived in the GDR as a normal citizen. I’ve never made any secret of the fact that my personal and subjective view of the GDR and normal life there is coloured by my Socialist sympathies and by my upbringing in the Republic of Ireland. At no time have I ever maintained that my opinion is the only valid one. What it should be doing is giving folks food for thought and discovering that even in the most negative circumstances there’s a silver lining. What I say is that, on balance, life in the GDR was inclusive, benevolent, remarkably peaceful and it was possible to live a very satisfying and fulfilling life there.

What the “other team” maintains is that I’m wrong. Even though I’ve only ever presented my own subjective and personal viewpoint, I’m still fundamentally wrong. But how can I be wrong when I’m working on experiences and incidents I witnessed with my own eyes?
It’s notable that the only two ARRSErs who actually have practical experience of the GDR, the former BRIXMIS members mentioned above, and who in no way can be accused of being in the same political boat as me, broadly agree with my assessment of normal, everyday life in the GDR, while those who’ve never been there and have gained their entire knowledge about the country from the gutter-rags and “official propaganda” vehemently disagree.


MsG
 
Threads on ARRSE have titles for a reason. It’s so that a specific subject can be discussed and folks get to read other opinions and information that helps them to better understand events and incidents and to widen their viewpoint. It might even prompt them to revise their own opinions in light of contributions made by other ARRSErs. Conspicuously absent from practically all thread titles is any addition stating: “Turn this thread into another “Bugsy-bashing” fest”.

I can well understand that the ARRSE vermin have an intense desire to work off their personal frustration at their own inadequacies, but their stupid and inane remarks continually derail the thread and put off others who have a genuine interest in the subject.

The title of this (resurrected) thread is: “Oh dear, so the GDR really wasn't nice then?” It’s formulated as a question and is a statement with which I disagree. So what’s the situation on the thread now?

On the one hand there’s me. I argue, and have always argued, that normal everyday life in the GDR was far superior to what we normally experience in Capitalist countries. The reason I state that is because GDR citizens never had to deal with the soul-destroying anxieties and worries that are part and parcel of the societies in which we live. They never had to worry about having no money to pay their bills at the end of each month. They never had to worry that they were going to suddenly find themselves homeless and destitute. They never had to worry that their children weren’t going to receive an outstanding education and they never had to worry that they wouldn’t receive treatment if they were sick. They also had far more democracy in the workplace than would ever be possible, or even tolerated, in any other society. In short, they had a profound peace of mind completely unknown to folks in the US, UK or other Capitalist nations.

All that meant that they were, in the literal sense of the word, “carefree”. It meant that they could pursue their personal cultural interests to a very high degree. It meant that their minds were free to follow creative ideas and thoughts that folks in our societies have no time for because they’re fully occupied with the constant, desperate struggle for existence.
What I’ve never done is to defend in any way the profoundly undemocratic GDR regime, because it was shite. I’ve also never defended the barbaric GDR border policy, or the oppressive Stasi state organ in its role as the “eyes and ears” (Schild und Schwert) of the regime. I’ve also never once described the GDR as a “Socialist paradise”, because it was never that.


On the other hand (or “team”), there are those who’ve maybe spent a day-trip in East Berlin or East Germany. There are far more who’ve simply read or heard the boundless propaganda about the GDR and have condemned it out of hand, but have spent no time whatsoever in the country and made no effort to inform themselves either about the GDR in particular, or Socialism in general.

Then again, there are a few ARRSErs who really did spend considerable time in East Germany; first and foremost the former members of BRIXMIS, @RoofRat and @Brotherton Lad. However, as far as I’m aware, I’m the only ARRSEr who actually lived in the GDR as a normal citizen. I’ve never made any secret of the fact that my personal and subjective view of the GDR and normal life there is coloured by my Socialist sympathies and by my upbringing in the Republic of Ireland. At no time have I ever maintained that my opinion is the only valid one. What it should be doing is giving folks food for thought and discovering that even in the most negative circumstances there’s a silver lining. What I say is that, on balance, life in the GDR was inclusive, benevolent, remarkably peaceful and it was possible to live a very satisfying and fulfilling life there.

What the “other team” maintains is that I’m wrong. Even though I’ve only ever presented my own subjective and personal viewpoint, I’m still fundamentally wrong. But how can I be wrong when I’m working on experiences and incidents I witnessed with my own eyes?
It’s notable that the only two ARRSErs who actually have practical experience of the GDR, the former BRIXMIS members mentioned above, and who in no way can be accused of being in the same political boat as me, broadly agree with my assessment of normal, everyday life in the GDR, while those who’ve never been there and have gained their entire knowledge about the country from the gutter-rags and “official propaganda” vehemently disagree.


MsG
 
Threads on ARRSE have titles for a reason. It’s so that a specific subject can be discussed and folks get to read other opinions and information that helps them to better understand events and incidents and to widen their viewpoint. It might even prompt them to revise their own opinions in light of contributions made by other ARRSErs. Conspicuously absent from practically all thread titles is any addition stating: “Turn this thread into another “Bugsy-bashing” fest”.

I can well understand that the ARRSE vermin have an intense desire to work off their personal frustration at their own inadequacies, but their stupid and inane remarks continually derail the thread and put off others who have a genuine interest in the subject.

The title of this (resurrected) thread is: “Oh dear, so the GDR really wasn't nice then?” It’s formulated as a question and is a statement with which I disagree. So what’s the situation on the thread now?

On the one hand there’s me. I argue, and have always argued, that normal everyday life in the GDR was far superior to what we normally experience in Capitalist countries. The reason I state that is because GDR citizens never had to deal with the soul-destroying anxieties and worries that are part and parcel of the societies in which we live. They never had to worry about having no money to pay their bills at the end of each month. They never had to worry that they were going to suddenly find themselves homeless and destitute. They never had to worry that their children weren’t going to receive an outstanding education and they never had to worry that they wouldn’t receive treatment if they were sick. They also had far more democracy in the workplace than would ever be possible, or even tolerated, in any other society. In short, they had a profound peace of mind completely unknown to folks in the US, UK or other Capitalist nations.

All that meant that they were, in the literal sense of the word, “carefree”. It meant that they could pursue their personal cultural interests to a very high degree. It meant that their minds were free to follow creative ideas and thoughts that folks in our societies have no time for because they’re fully occupied with the constant, desperate struggle for existence.
What I’ve never done is to defend in any way the profoundly undemocratic GDR regime, because it was shite. I’ve also never defended the barbaric GDR border policy, or the oppressive Stasi state organ in its role as the “eyes and ears” (Schild und Schwert) of the regime. I’ve also never once described the GDR as a “Socialist paradise”, because it was never that.


On the other hand (or “team”), there are those who’ve maybe spent a day-trip in East Berlin or East Germany. There are far more who’ve simply read or heard the boundless propaganda about the GDR and have condemned it out of hand, but have spent no time whatsoever in the country and made no effort to inform themselves either about the GDR in particular, or Socialism in general.

Then again, there are a few ARRSErs who really did spend considerable time in East Germany; first and foremost the former members of BRIXMIS, @RoofRat and @Brotherton Lad. However, as far as I’m aware, I’m the only ARRSEr who actually lived in the GDR as a normal citizen. I’ve never made any secret of the fact that my personal and subjective view of the GDR and normal life there is coloured by my Socialist sympathies and by my upbringing in the Republic of Ireland. At no time have I ever maintained that my opinion is the only valid one. What it should be doing is giving folks food for thought and discovering that even in the most negative circumstances there’s a silver lining. What I say is that, on balance, life in the GDR was inclusive, benevolent, remarkably peaceful and it was possible to live a very satisfying and fulfilling life there.

What the “other team” maintains is that I’m wrong. Even though I’ve only ever presented my own subjective and personal viewpoint, I’m still fundamentally wrong. But how can I be wrong when I’m working on experiences and incidents I witnessed with my own eyes?
It’s notable that the only two ARRSErs who actually have practical experience of the GDR, the former BRIXMIS members mentioned above, and who in no way can be accused of being in the same political boat as me, broadly agree with my assessment of normal, everyday life in the GDR, while those who’ve never been there and have gained their entire knowledge about the country from the gutter-rags and “official propaganda” vehemently disagree.


MsG
Its a good thing you're not bothered enough to write an essay about it,.
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
Yes, it was truly carefree in East Germany, no worries about the totally not Gestapo Stasi kicking your door in, no fear of a bullet in the head if you popped over to the West. A veritable earthly paradise
 
Yes, it was truly carefree in East Germany, no worries about the totally not Gestapo Stasi kicking your door in, no fear of a bullet in the head if you popped over to the West. A veritable earthly paradise

These threats were there and did occasionally occur, especially if you made too much political noise or tried to flee. For most East Germans just trying to get on with their lives I'd say the DDR in my time (mid-80s) was similar to late 50s/early 60s Britain in terms of the standard of living and the type of community spirit/sports clubs/bands you would see in towns and villages.

It also had all sorts of political movements going on, eg, environmental, pacifist and an increasing display of political grafitti as Gorbachev introduced his new policies.
 
Threads on ARRSE have titles for a reason. It’s so that a specific subject can be discussed and folks get to read other opinions and information that helps them to better understand events and incidents and to widen their viewpoint. It might even prompt them to revise their own opinions in light of contributions made by other ARRSErs. Conspicuously absent from practically all thread titles is any addition stating: “Turn this thread into another “Bugsy-bashing” fest”.

I can well understand that the ARRSE vermin have an intense desire to work off their personal frustration at their own inadequacies, but their stupid and inane remarks continually derail the thread and put off others who have a genuine interest in the subject.

The title of this (resurrected) thread is: “Oh dear, so the GDR really wasn't nice then?” It’s formulated as a question and is a statement with which I disagree. So what’s the situation on the thread now?

On the one hand there’s me. I argue, and have always argued, that normal everyday life in the GDR was far superior to what we normally experience in Capitalist countries. The reason I state that is because GDR citizens never had to deal with the soul-destroying anxieties and worries that are part and parcel of the societies in which we live. They never had to worry about having no money to pay their bills at the end of each month. They never had to worry that they were going to suddenly find themselves homeless and destitute. They never had to worry that their children weren’t going to receive an outstanding education and they never had to worry that they wouldn’t receive treatment if they were sick. They also had far more democracy in the workplace than would ever be possible, or even tolerated, in any other society. In short, they had a profound peace of mind completely unknown to folks in the US, UK or other Capitalist nations.

All that meant that they were, in the literal sense of the word, “carefree”. It meant that they could pursue their personal cultural interests to a very high degree. It meant that their minds were free to follow creative ideas and thoughts that folks in our societies have no time for because they’re fully occupied with the constant, desperate struggle for existence.
What I’ve never done is to defend in any way the profoundly undemocratic GDR regime, because it was shite. I’ve also never defended the barbaric GDR border policy, or the oppressive Stasi state organ in its role as the “eyes and ears” (Schild und Schwert) of the regime. I’ve also never once described the GDR as a “Socialist paradise”, because it was never that.


On the other hand (or “team”), there are those who’ve maybe spent a day-trip in East Berlin or East Germany. There are far more who’ve simply read or heard the boundless propaganda about the GDR and have condemned it out of hand, but have spent no time whatsoever in the country and made no effort to inform themselves either about the GDR in particular, or Socialism in general.

Then again, there are a few ARRSErs who really did spend considerable time in East Germany; first and foremost the former members of BRIXMIS, @RoofRat and @Brotherton Lad. However, as far as I’m aware, I’m the only ARRSEr who actually lived in the GDR as a normal citizen. I’ve never made any secret of the fact that my personal and subjective view of the GDR and normal life there is coloured by my Socialist sympathies and by my upbringing in the Republic of Ireland. At no time have I ever maintained that my opinion is the only valid one. What it should be doing is giving folks food for thought and discovering that even in the most negative circumstances there’s a silver lining. What I say is that, on balance, life in the GDR was inclusive, benevolent, remarkably peaceful and it was possible to live a very satisfying and fulfilling life there.

What the “other team” maintains is that I’m wrong. Even though I’ve only ever presented my own subjective and personal viewpoint, I’m still fundamentally wrong. But how can I be wrong when I’m working on experiences and incidents I witnessed with my own eyes?
It’s notable that the only two ARRSErs who actually have practical experience of the GDR, the former BRIXMIS members mentioned above, and who in no way can be accused of being in the same political boat as me, broadly agree with my assessment of normal, everyday life in the GDR, while those who’ve never been there and have gained their entire knowledge about the country from the gutter-rags and “official propaganda” vehemently disagree.


MsG
Let's face it, before you defected to the socialist paradise of the DDR, all you had to compare it with was Ballyfermot in Dublin,
 
They never had to worry that their children weren’t going to receive an outstanding education and they never had to worry that they wouldn’t receive treatment if they were sick. They also had far more democracy in the workplace than would ever be possible, or even tolerated, in any other society. In short, they had a profound peace of mind completely unknown to folks in the US, UK or other Capitalist nations.

As long as they didn't go against the party. Their education was restricted in that they were taught what the state wanted them to be taught. They had piece of mind? Yeah right. No freedom of thought. No freedom of travel and every third neighbour was either reporting on or being reported to the Stasi. Books and music were approved by the state or hidden from view.

Edited to add. TV, newpapers and radio were state owned and controlled (I used to love watching the Soviet war movie on DDR2 on a Sunday afternoon) However most of East Germany and especially East Berlin could listen to West Berlin or West German radio and some could even watch western TV, I'm not sure if that included BFBS and AFN though! Dresden was called "the valley of the stupid" because it couldn't receive western TV signals.

Sure they had homes and regular dental and medical treatments. I agree that the vast majority just got on with their lives and were reasonably well fed and clothed. The majority that I met were polite, articulate, intelligent..... and very wary of what they said and who they said it too.

You lived in East Berlin in the late 70's but kept a flat in the west which by your own admission, you travelled to regularly. You then lived in Eastern Germany after the wall came down. Yet you talk as if you spent years in the DDR and was bezzers with border guards, stasi, teachers, intellectuals and probably Hoeneker himself!

If you were honest and stopped trying to big yourself up by telling porkies all the time, you would probably have some interesting and valid stories to tell. However you are now just a figure of fun, who's word is taken with a pinch of salt.

Please try not to swear in your reply as you know that leads to the naughty step and I wouldn't want to miss out on your entertaining posts!
 
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Yes, it was truly carefree in East Germany, no worries about the totally not Gestapo Stasi kicking your door in, no fear of a bullet in the head if you popped over to the West. A veritable earthly paradise
It truly was a People's Paradise... fancy a new car? Here you go, roll up, roll up, cars for all at a mere 14,000 Mark der DDR.

All GDR citizens above the age of 18 were eligible to apply for a brand-new Trabi at a purchase price of around 14,000 marks. Prospective buyers would be put on a waiting list, which gave them plenty of time to save up. With waiting times of twelve to 17 years, it’s no wonder that many people had ambivalent feelings towards their Trabis.
 
You lived in East Berlin in the late 70's but kept a flat in the west which by your own admission, you travelled to regularly. You then lived in Eastern Germany after the wall came down. Yet you talk as if you spent years in the DDR and was bezzers with border guards, stasi, teachers, intellectuals and probably Hoeneker himself!
You'll find Bugsy's fantasy life treats time and space like the Tardis
https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/t...modern-socialists.106016/page-15#post-2555363

He's lived the USSR as well y'know
 
Bugsy , if you want proper adult like debate perhaps support your argument with legitimate sources that can be verified. Also try answering people's questions instead of following your M.O of changing the subject.

You will never been taken seriously as it's obviously never your intention, your intention being to wind people up.
 
The good old US of A?
Nope. Bugsy worked on building sites in the USA "running the hod"

https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/how-to-carry-bricks-when-youve-no-hod.98517/

You should be a bit careful with your supercilious assumptions, for I have worked on building sites; and not only in Ireland, but also in Germany, Italy and America. I also "ran the hod" all day (although in Italy, you strap it to your back), and my little "party trick" was going straight up to the third and fourth floor via the scaffolding poles and balancing the hod on me shoulder. Mind you, you can only do that safely if you're a trained gymnast (as I am).
 
Bugsy , if you want proper adult like debate perhaps support your argument with legitimate sources that can be verified. Also try answering people's questions instead of following your M.O of changing the subject.

You will never been taken seriously as it's obviously never your intention, your intention being to wind people up.

I dont think he winds anyone up, most people just laugh at the stupid old twat.
 
Nope. Bugsy worked on building sites in the USA "running the hod"

https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/how-to-carry-bricks-when-youve-no-hod.98517/

You should be a bit careful with your supercilious assumptions, for I have worked on building sites; and not only in Ireland, but also in Germany, Italy and America. I also "ran the hod" all day (although in Italy, you strap it to your back), and my little "party trick" was going straight up to the third and fourth floor via the scaffolding poles and balancing the hod on me shoulder. Mind you, you can only do that safely if you're a trained gymnast (as I am).
" for I have worked on building sites; and not only in Ireland, but also in Germany, Italy and America."

Bloody hell, when and how does he find the time to do all the other stuff?
 
Nope. Bugsy worked on building sites in the USA "running the hod"

https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/how-to-carry-bricks-when-youve-no-hod.98517/

You should be a bit careful with your supercilious assumptions, for I have worked on building sites; and not only in Ireland, but also in Germany, Italy and America. I also "ran the hod" all day (although in Italy, you strap it to your back), and my little "party trick" was going straight up to the third and fourth floor via the scaffolding poles and balancing the hod on me shoulder. Mind you, you can only do that safely if you're a trained gymnast (as I am).
USSR
GDR
USA
Italy
Ireland
UK
Poland
etc

Its no wonder he has rose tinted specs of socialist countries - He cant possibly have lived anywhere long enough for the novelty to wear off
 
" for I have worked on building sites; and not only in Ireland, but also in Germany, Italy and America."

Bloody hell, when and how does he find the time to do all the other stuff?
He has had more addresses and career paths than the entire male population of a medium city combined. Bugsy is a busy little liar isn't he...
 
USSR
GDR
USA
Italy
Ireland
UK
Poland
etc

Its no wonder he has rose tinted specs of socialist countries - He cant possibly have lived anywhere long enough for the novelty to wear off
Don't forget that he manufactured drugs on the Cambodia/Laos border.
 

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