Oh dear, so the GDR really wasn't nice then ?

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
I assume your broken brain is currently on loop mode.
Is your wop of a wife currently staring at you, wondering why you are shouting the same thing over and over again?
Such a wealth of information in such a short post! How do you do that, spackerman? Amazing!

MsG
 
Such a wealth of information in such a short post! How do you do that, spackerman? Amazing!

MsG
Just by continuing to laugh at your sad little life.
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
Just by continuing to laugh at your sad little life.
Many thanks for another valuable contribution to the thread, spackerinski.

MsG
 
Many thanks for another valuable contribution to the thread, spackerinski.

MsG
No worries Bugsy, I'm just happy that everytime you reply the thread goes to the top of new posts page resulting in everyone knowing that you are lying again.
 
So the unamimous decision of the (far from impartial) ARRSE jury is that the GDR border regime was barbaric and in direct contrast to any human rights. OK. I agree entirely. In fact, I've never disagreed with that, as I've stated on several different occasions. So what do we (youse) do now?

What I've always stated, and is to this day factually correct, is that no authority in the GDR ever issued a clear "shoot-to-kill order to the GDR border guards. There was no such order, there has never been any such order and, to date, no-one, but no-one, has ever produced any verifiable evidence that such an official "shoot-to-kill" ever even existed.

MsG
It's only the testimony of Adolf Eichmann at his trial that has ever stood as evidence of a Führer order for the Final Solution.

As it appears not to be written down anywhere, using your logic, does that not give credence to Holocaust deniers?
 
It's only the testimony of Adolf Eichmann at his trial that has ever stood as evidence of a Führer order for the Final Solution.

As it appears not to be written down anywhere, using your logic, does that not give credence to Holocaust deniers?
Orders which would be as damning as that were generally not put into written form. There was, however, a process which, translated from the German, came out as, "Working toward the Fuhrer;" in other words, doing what the Fuhrer's openly stated policies seemed to indicate one should do in a particular situation, thus:

"Everyone who has the opportunity to observe it knows that the Führer can hardly dictate from above everything which he intends to realise sooner or later. On the contrary, up till now everyone with a post in the new Germany has worked best when he has, so to speak, worked towards the Führer. Very often and in many spheres it has been the case—in previous years as well—that individuals have simply waited for orders and instructions. Unfortunately, the same will be true in the future; but in fact it is the duty of everybody to try to work towards the Führer along the lines he would wish. Anyone who makes mistakes will notice it soon enough. But anyone who really works towards the Führer along his lines and towards his goal will certainly both now and in the future one day have the finest reward in the form of the sudden legal confirmation of his work."

From Working Toward the Führer

As the DDR had the same sort of dictatorial Socialist Government, it would not surprise me at all to find they used a very similar process when it came to issuing, how might one put it, distasteful orders?
 
You express that as a definitive statement, RoofRat, and not as your personal opinion, or what you believe. You. How many wars have been kicked off by stupid border incidents?
MsG
None

Even India and Pakistan dont kick off over the not infrequent border skirmishes

Now I know you are going to cite WW2 (Poland) and Korea - But having all your troops in an attack posture and then manufacturing , staging or just claiming a border incident ignited war - leads many to suspect the border incident was simply the excuse for home consumption.
 
So the unamimous decision of the (far from impartial) ARRSE jury is that the GDR border regime was barbaric and in direct contrast to any human rights. OK. I agree entirely. In fact, I've never disagreed with that, as I've stated on several different occasions. So what do we (youse) do now?

What I've always stated, and is to this day factually correct, is that no authority in the GDR ever issued a clear "shoot-to-kill order to the GDR border guards. There was no such order, there has never been any such order and, to date, no-one, but no-one, has ever produced any verifiable evidence that such an official "shoot-to-kill" ever even existed.

MsG
East German Shoot-to-Kill Order Is Found
Document Shows East German Guards Had Shoot-to-Kill Orders | Germany| News and in-depth reporting from Berlin and beyond | DW | 12.08.2007
BBC NEWS | Europe | E German 'licence to kill' found

People were even tried in a court based on the order.

ON TRIAL FOR DEATH AT BERLIN WALL

And here's the guy who along with Honecker ordered the issue of live rounds to the NVA in September '89 during the protests.

PressReader.com - Zeitungen aus der ganzen Welt

Of course you will know all this, having done your;
own in-depth research on the subject:
 
East German Shoot-to-Kill Order Is Found
Document Shows East German Guards Had Shoot-to-Kill Orders | Germany| News and in-depth reporting from Berlin and beyond | DW | 12.08.2007
BBC NEWS | Europe | E German 'licence to kill' found

People were even tried in a court based on the order.

ON TRIAL FOR DEATH AT BERLIN WALL

And here's the guy who along with Honecker ordered the issue of live rounds to the NVA in September '89 during the protests.

PressReader.com - Zeitungen aus der ganzen Welt

Of course you will know all this, having done your;
Maple actually put up a pic of the document a couple of pages earlier, but it was ignored by Bugsy. Maybe your post might get a response from him this time.
 
Maple actually put up a pic of the document a couple of pages earlier, but it was ignored by Bugsy. Maybe your post might get a response from him this time.
As he so eloquently informed us on another thread

Just because its documented fact - doesn't mean he has to believe it

Oddly however he has an excellent ability to believe any unfounded suppositions - providing they equate to West Bad Russia / AN other socialist country good
 
I agree, but the important point is that common humanity was well-grounded in East Germany (despite all the unpleasantness). After all, when those mass protests started in Leipzig in 1989 there was no massacre.
he point about East Germany I would argue that was entirely serendipity, after all the controlling mind was ill itself, West Germany was a member of NATO after all, but then there's an element of me who thinks that nothing would be done, after all they were only Germans. The point about East Germany was the people there were portrayed as the biddable remnants of the Nazi time who would do as the Communists wanted. It was entirely forgotten that it was imposed on them and that there was resistance as evidenced by those wanting to leave, whether the East said the defences were there to protect or the West said they were there to detain makes no difference. They were still there.

The defenders of the East German state can argue all they like that all was sweetness light and eluded themselves that life was better. I'll make an analogy here. East Germany lasted 41 years. Those that knew nothing else mourned it like the Soviets in Russia. Russia only had one issue in the 4+2 talks, money. The west paid them to go away. What followed was the Euro and the EU. Our enemy in the East in 1968 when I joined was Russia, it still is!!
 
Maple actually put up a pic of the document a couple of pages earlier, but it was ignored by Bugsy. Maybe your post might get a response from him this time.
Well, I'm not sure that he'll be back having been booed off so convincingly (I may be wrong). I think we can conclude that the ordinary working people in the former DDR had bugger all and spent most of their time in their cardboard shoes scratching about to keep equipment working; that their border guards killed plenty trying to get out but none trying to get in: and that legally nothing or no-one is going to demand that the united Germany has to put things back as they were.
 
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The defenders of the East German state can argue all they like that all was sweetness light and eluded themselves that life was better. I'll make an analogy here. East Germany lasted 41 years. Those that knew nothing else mourned it like the Soviets in Russia. Russia only had one issue in the 4+2 talks, money. The west paid them to go away. What followed was the Euro and the EU. Our enemy in the East in 1968 when I joined was Russia, it still is!!
I made a comment on another thread that the wall has now been down longer than it was up. The regime lasted as long as it was propped up by either Western or Soviet money. When both stopped, the regime failed. What was it Maggie said "The trouble with socialism is sooner or later you run out of other peoples money"
The fact that the revolution was bloodless is a credit to the East Germans, both in and out of uniform. The Soviets wisely kept out of it.
 
Maple actually put up a pic of the document a couple of pages earlier, but it was ignored by Bugsy. Maybe your post might get a response from him this time.
Unlikely... if verifiable facts do not precisely coincide with Bugsy facts then they will receive a stern ignoring and the poster of said verifiable facts will get the silly name / 'it's not my fault you are inferior to me' type of response.

It the way things work in Bug's World.
 
As he so eloquently informed us on another thread

Just because its documented fact - doesn't mean he has to believe it

Oddly however he has an excellent ability to believe any unfounded suppositions - providing they equate to West Bad Russia / AN other socialist country good
Sounds like your typical Jeremy Corbyn walt, along with believing that when it all goes wrong it was always the wrong kind of socialism
 
From an article about the Hohenschoenhausen Memorial. Thousands of political prisoners were held in the former Stasi detention centre.
"Of course it hurts when you look back to the past," said Schulze, from the UOKG, a Berlin-based umbrella group for victims of the communist dictatorship. "After all, we're human beings. But on the other hand, it's so necessary to look back.”
Not only are former East Germans uninterested in examining the past, but they are also prone to distorting their own history, says Reiprich. They are much more likely today to portray the GDR in a much more positive light than they would have in the years directly after the communist regime was toppled in 1989, he says.

It all sounds a bit familiar when reading Bugsy's myopic and jaundiced view of the DDR....
 
I'm not sure that he'll be back having been booed off so convincingly (I may be wrong).
Trivial things like:
  • being shot down in flames of ridicule for his comically inconsistent fables lies and his subsequent claims to 'I never said that'
  • being shot down in flames of ridicule for his comically inane and hopelessly inaccurate defence of GDR state oppression
  • being shot down in flames of ridicule for his comically example free assertions that socialism is the only way the world can survive and the SWP is the only organisation that lead us safely away from the apocalypse of a capitalist self destruction
  • being Nottingham's premier pigeon tamer
do not deter Bugsy in the slightest. He knows no shame and has no dignity. Attention is attention however it is attained and only an enforced holiday stops him in his tracks.

So yes, you are wrong. Sorry.
 
Trivial things like:
  • being shot down in flames of ridicule for his comically inconsistent fables lies and his subsequent claims to 'I never said that'
  • being shot down in flames of ridicule for his comically inane and hopelessly inaccurate defence of GDR state oppression
  • being shot down in flames of ridicule for his comically example free assertions that socialism is the only way the world can survive and the SWP is the only organisation that lead us safely away from the apocalypse of a capitalist self destruction
  • being Nottingham's premier pigeon tamer
do not deter Bugsy in the slightest. He knows no shame and has no dignity. Attention is attention however it is attained and only an enforced holiday stops him in his tracks.

So yes, you are wrong. Sorry.
Concur. The Irish prick is a serial internet troll and liar spreading his shite over a multitude of sites both here and abroad.
 

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