OFT Investigating Oil Industry - are we being ripped off?

TheresaMay

ADC
Moderator
DirtyBAT
#1
Simple answer - most likely.

BBC News - Petrol and diesel price review is launched by OFT

The OFT are investigating the Oil Industry amid reports that price drops of crude oil are not being passed on to customers at the pump; results of which are expected to be published in January.

Nothing new there - and along a similar line to the mortgage companies that were not passing on the full benefit to customers when the BOE lowered their base rates several times a few years ago. But if found guilty, they could face fines of millions of pounds.

So if fined - who is the 'fine money' paid to? The government? I'd like to think that whatever the companies were fined would simply be deducted from the prices they charge at the pumps. That way Joe Public would get the benefit (seeing as it's us they've short-changed). After all, the money the oil companies would lose is irrelavent to who they lose it to.
 
#2
It should be a world wide review, which, it cant be but it's the same all over, fuel prices go up a damn site quicker than they come down. Dont forget the Tax element in your fuel price, the provider (BP/Shell/ etc) may whack a penny on the price but the Govt may whack another two on top.

Dont get your hopes up, petrol/diesel is a cash cow for Govt's the world over. Nowt's going to be changing anytime soon.
 
#3
It has taken a long time in coming. Also, I suspect that the oil industry will have a few lunches with the investigators and take them on trips to see where oil comes from and the result will be that things are not as simple as we all think and oil companies are really good eggs. So it will be whitewash to appease us. If they are successful in finding that we are being well screwed perhaps they will look at gas and electricity next - couldn't expect them to do it at the same time.
 
#5
It's easy to have a pop at the oil industry but you should direct your angst towards the government in the first instance. The enquiry will be limited to the UK I suspect. All but one oil major has sold off their refining capability to other companies who now buy their crude at market rates so just how will pointing the finger at 'the oil companies' and blaming them make any difference what so ever.
it looks to me like a smoke screen by the government to appease the general publics complaints of high fuel costs.

I like to use the bottle of Evian argument when discussing fuel prices. People (stupid ones, granted) will happily part with £2 for a litre of tap water dressed up that has gone through almost no process to get to your table. Contrast that with a litre of petrol that has been sucked out of the ground in Nigeria, transported thousands of miles, treated with all kinds of expensive chemicals and complicated processes, all the toxins removed and disposed of then transported to your forecourt.

Bargain!
 

TheresaMay

ADC
Moderator
DirtyBAT
#6
The Evian argument...

It's basically 'Naive' backwards. Argument over :)
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#7
It's easy to have a pop at the oil industry but you should direct your angst towards the government in the first instance. The enquiry will be limited to the UK I suspect. All but one oil major has sold off their refining capability to other companies who now buy their crude at market rates so just how will pointing the finger at 'the oil companies' and blaming them make any difference what so ever.
it looks to me like a smoke screen by the government to appease the general publics complaints of high fuel costs.

I like to use the bottle of Evian argument when discussing fuel prices. People (stupid ones, granted) will happily part with £2 for a litre of tap water dressed up that has gone through almost no process to get to your table. Contrast that with a litre of petrol that has been sucked out of the ground in Nigeria, transported thousands of miles, treated with all kinds of expensive chemicals and complicated processes, all the toxins removed and disposed of then transported to your forecourt.

Bargain!
Hold on there 'JR'. Your 'Evian' argument holds no water (see what I did there?) and suggests that people are stupid for paying the current forecourt prices, which is rather unfair. Those who choose to spend their money on over dressed tap water do so through choice. The motorist has no choice, beyond pay up or walk to work. The motorist will always pay. They have to. Their whole way of life and that of their families rests upon them. No car, no work, no money. It's as easy as that in most cases.

I have no in depth knowledge of the oil industry, but let's be honest here, they're not doing anything for our benefit now are they? I agree that this Government will shut its mouth and allow the blame to be directed elsewhere as it has plenty of previous in that department. They are each as bad as the other, but we will continue to pay at the pump. Too much of us are dependant upon doing so. We are a captive audience and both the Oil Industry and the Government know it.
 
#8
Hold on there 'JR'. Your 'Evian' argument holds no water (see what I did there?) and suggests that people are stupid for paying the current forecourt prices, which is rather unfair. Those who choose to spend their money on over dressed tap water do so through choice. The motorist has no choice, beyond pay up or walk to work. The motorist will always pay. They have to. Their whole way of life and that of their families rests upon them. No car, no work, no money. It's as easy as that in most cases.
I think he was making the point that people whinge about buying petrol, when they will happily spend more on a bottle of water.

I have no in depth knowledge of the oil industry, but let's be honest here, they're not doing anything for our benefit now are they? I agree that this Government will shut its mouth and allow the blame to be directed elsewhere as it has plenty of previous in that department. They are each as bad as the other, but we will continue to pay at the pump. Too much of us are dependant upon doing so. We are a captive audience and both the Oil Industry and the Government know it.
Apart from finding the oil & gas, extracting it, transporting it, refining it and selling it so that you can drive your car and have products made of plastic, and fly to another country on holiday etc.

Edited to add a cut and paste:


[h=3]Products Made From Oil[/h]

[TABLE="width: 100%"]


[TR]

[TD]
Clothing Ink
Heart Valves

Crayons
Parachutes
Telephones
Enamel
Transparent
tape
Antiseptics
Vacuum bottles
Deodorant
Pantyhose
Rubbing
Alcohol
Carpets
Epoxy paint
Oil filters
Upholstery
Hearing
Aids
Car sound insulation
Cassettes
Motorcycle
helmets
Pillows
Shower doors
Shoes
Refrigerator linings

Electrical tape
Safety glass
Awnings
Salad bowl
Rubber
cement
Nylon rope
Ice buckets
Fertilizers
Hair coloring
Toilet
seats
Denture adhesive
Loudspeakers
Movie film
Fishing
boots
Candles
Water pipes
Car enamel
Shower curtains
Credit
cards
Aspirin
Golf balls
Detergents
Sunglasses
Glue
Fishing
rods
Linoleum
Plastic wood
Soft contact lenses
Trash bags
Hand
lotion
Shampoo
Shaving cream
Footballs
Paint brushes
Balloons

Fan belts
Umbrellas
Paint Rollers
Luggage
Antifreeze


[/TD]

[TD]
Model cars
Floor wax
Sports car bodies
Tires
Dishwashing liquids

Unbreakable dishes
Toothbrushes
Toothpaste
Combs
Tents
Hair
curlers
Lipstick
Ice cube trays
Electric blankets
Tennis
rackets
Drinking cups
House paint
Rollerskates wheels
Guitar
strings
Ammonia
Eyeglasses
Ice chests
Life jackets
TV
cabinets
Car battery cases
Insect repellent
Refrigerants
Typewriter
ribbons
Cold cream
Glycerin
Plywood
adhesive
Cameras
Anesthetics
Artificial turf
Artificial
Limbs
Bandages
Dentures
Mops
Beach Umbrellas
Ballpoint
pens
Boats
Nail polish
Golf bags
Caulking
Tape
recorders
Curtains
Vitamin capsules

Dashboards
Putty
Percolators
Skis
Insecticides
Fishing
lures
Perfumes
Shoe polish
Petroleum jelly
Faucet washers
Food
preservatives
Antihistamines
Cortisone
Dyes
LP
records
Solvents
Roofing
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
#9
I think he was making the point that people whinge about buying petrol, when they will happily spend more on a bottle of water.



Apart from finding the oil & gas, extracting it, transporting it, refining it and selling it so that you can drive your car and have products made of plastic, and fly to another country on holiday etc.

Edited to add a cut and paste:


[h=3]Products Made From Oil[/h]

[TABLE="width: 100%"]


[TR]

[TD]
Clothing Ink
Heart Valves

Crayons
Parachutes
Telephones
Enamel
Transparent
tape
Antiseptics
Vacuum bottles
Deodorant
Pantyhose
Rubbing
Alcohol
Carpets
Epoxy paint
Oil filters
Upholstery
Hearing
Aids
Car sound insulation
Cassettes
Motorcycle
helmets
Pillows
Shower doors
Shoes
Refrigerator linings

Electrical tape
Safety glass
Awnings
Salad bowl
Rubber
cement
Nylon rope
Ice buckets
Fertilizers
Hair coloring
Toilet
seats
Denture adhesive
Loudspeakers
Movie film
Fishing
boots
Candles
Water pipes
Car enamel
Shower curtains
Credit
cards
Aspirin
Golf balls
Detergents
Sunglasses
Glue
Fishing
rods
Linoleum
Plastic wood
Soft contact lenses
Trash bags
Hand
lotion
Shampoo
Shaving cream
Footballs
Paint brushes
Balloons

Fan belts
Umbrellas
Paint Rollers
Luggage
Antifreeze


[/TD]

[TD]
Model cars
Floor wax
Sports car bodies
Tires
Dishwashing liquids

Unbreakable dishes
Toothbrushes
Toothpaste
Combs
Tents
Hair
curlers
Lipstick
Ice cube trays
Electric blankets
Tennis
rackets
Drinking cups
House paint
Rollerskates wheels
Guitar
strings
Ammonia
Eyeglasses
Ice chests
Life jackets
TV
cabinets
Car battery cases
Insect repellent
Refrigerants
Typewriter
ribbons
Cold cream
Glycerin
Plywood
adhesive
Cameras
Anesthetics
Artificial turf
Artificial
Limbs
Bandages
Dentures
Mops
Beach Umbrellas
Ballpoint
pens
Boats
Nail polish
Golf bags
Caulking
Tape
recorders
Curtains
Vitamin capsules

Dashboards
Putty
Percolators
Skis
Insecticides
Fishing
lures
Perfumes
Shoe polish
Petroleum jelly
Faucet washers
Food
preservatives
Antihistamines
Cortisone
Dyes
LP
records
Solvents
Roofing
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I don't think the companies involved in the manufacture of any of those products do it for my benefit, they do it to make money, in much the same way as newspapers are printed to make money. No problems with that, the only sticking point is the profit margins involved.

Citroen stopped people going to France to get their wagons serviced at authorised Citroen dealers, by stating that unless done by UK dealers the warranty would be invalidated; it was, and may still be, cheaper to take a day trip to a French port, get the wagon done, go shopping, and eat out, than go to a local dealer.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#10
I think he was making the point that people whinge about buying petrol, when they will happily spend more on a bottle of water.



Apart from finding the oil & gas, extracting it, transporting it, refining it and selling it so that you can drive your car and have products made of plastic, and fly to another country on holiday etc.

Edited to add a cut and paste:


[h=3]Products Made From Oil[/h]

[TABLE="width: 100%"]


[TR]

[TD]
Clothing Ink
Heart Valves

Crayons
Parachutes
Telephones
Enamel
Transparent
tape
Antiseptics
Vacuum bottles
Deodorant
Pantyhose
Rubbing
Alcohol
Carpets
Epoxy paint
Oil filters
Upholstery
Hearing
Aids
Car sound insulation
Cassettes
Motorcycle
helmets
Pillows
Shower doors
Shoes
Refrigerator linings

Electrical tape
Safety glass
Awnings
Salad bowl
Rubber
cement
Nylon rope
Ice buckets
Fertilizers
Hair coloring
Toilet
seats
Denture adhesive
Loudspeakers
Movie film
Fishing
boots
Candles
Water pipes
Car enamel
Shower curtains
Credit
cards
Aspirin
Golf balls
Detergents
Sunglasses
Glue
Fishing
rods
Linoleum
Plastic wood
Soft contact lenses
Trash bags
Hand
lotion
Shampoo
Shaving cream
Footballs
Paint brushes
Balloons

Fan belts
Umbrellas
Paint Rollers
Luggage
Antifreeze


[/TD]

[TD]
Model cars
Floor wax
Sports car bodies
Tires
Dishwashing liquids

Unbreakable dishes
Toothbrushes
Toothpaste
Combs
Tents
Hair
curlers
Lipstick
Ice cube trays
Electric blankets
Tennis
rackets
Drinking cups
House paint
Rollerskates wheels
Guitar
strings
Ammonia
Eyeglasses
Ice chests
Life jackets
TV
cabinets
Car battery cases
Insect repellent
Refrigerants
Typewriter
ribbons
Cold cream
Glycerin
Plywood
adhesive
Cameras
Anesthetics
Artificial turf
Artificial
Limbs
Bandages
Dentures
Mops
Beach Umbrellas
Ballpoint
pens
Boats
Nail polish
Golf bags
Caulking
Tape
recorders
Curtains
Vitamin capsules

Dashboards
Putty
Percolators
Skis
Insecticides
Fishing
lures
Perfumes
Shoe polish
Petroleum jelly
Faucet washers
Food
preservatives
Antihistamines
Cortisone
Dyes
LP
records
Solvents
Roofing
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I want cheap petrol at the pumps. Not rollerskate wheels or Faucet washers. But thanks for showing me your in-depth knowledge of the oil industry. I'll sleep like ******* log tonight.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#11
I don't think the companies involved in the manufacture of any of those products do it for my benefit, they do it to make money...
Doing it for money? Strange how that appears absent from his list? Are you sure that you wouldn't benefit from a new set of roller skate wheels?
 
#12
So it will be whitewash to appease us. If they are successful in finding that we are being well screwed perhaps they will look at gas and electricity next - couldn't expect them to do it at the same time.
Don't anticipate a grand expose, after all, these politicos will need to consider their post political career in getting on the company boards they have 'assisted' en route.
 
#13
Citroen stopped people going to France to get their wagons serviced at authorised Citroen dealers, by stating that unless done by UK dealers the warranty would be invalidated; it was, and may still be, cheaper to take a day trip to a French port, get the wagon done, go shopping, and eat out, than go to a local dealer.
Which may break EU law somewhere, Competition law perhaps, restriction of trade.
 
#14
Doing it for money? Strange how that appears absent from his list? Are you sure that you wouldn't benefit from a new set of roller skate wheels?
The list is just a sample. Polymer banknotes could indeed be included.
 
#15
I don't think the companies involved in the manufacture of any of those products do it for my benefit, they do it to make money, in much the same way as newspapers are printed to make money. No problems with that, the only sticking point is the profit margins involved.

Citroen stopped people going to France to get their wagons serviced at authorised Citroen dealers, by stating that unless done by UK dealers the warranty would be invalidated; it was, and may still be, cheaper to take a day trip to a French port, get the wagon done, go shopping, and eat out, than go to a local dealer.
Fully agreed. The difficulty is that one can't just say 'it's the oil companies'. An upstream company will sell at the market rate. Traders will usually buy speculatively - i.e. buy oil at todays price and take delivery some months later when the price may be different. How they sell will be similarly affected by market forces.

Finding and producing oil is fantastically expensive, especially offshore. Man fields are now marginal and require further expenditure just to keep production levels at the same rate, let alone increasing them. Just look at what happenned when the government in its wisdom increased taxes in the North Sea - they shut down because they were unsustainable. Yes, oil companies want a profit - what kind of company does not? But they also need huge revenue to sustain production.
 
#16
It's easy to have a pop at the oil industry but you should direct your angst towards the government in the first instance. The enquiry will be limited to the UK I suspect. All but one oil major has sold off their refining capability to other companies who now buy their crude at market rates so just how will pointing the finger at 'the oil companies' and blaming them make any difference what so ever.
it looks to me like a smoke screen by the government to appease the general publics complaints of high fuel costs.

I like to use the bottle of Evian argument when discussing fuel prices. People (stupid ones, granted) will happily part with £2 for a litre of tap water dressed up that has gone through almost no process to get to your table. Contrast that with a litre of petrol that has been sucked out of the ground in Nigeria, transported thousands of miles, treated with all kinds of expensive chemicals and complicated processes, all the toxins removed and disposed of then transported to your forecourt.

Bargain!
Nice logical fallacy. So by that standard Mineral Water must be more profitable than Oil right? Right?
 
#17
#18
No its not. Demand is factored into profitability, just because I can get X out of the ground cheaper than Y does not mean someone will pay me for it.
 
#19
Exactly - people need refined hydrocarbons more than they do purified tap water and use more of it.

If you looked at percentage profit for oil companies for a litre of refined product it would be nowhere near as high as mineral water.
 
#20
I think he was making the point that people whinge about buying petrol, when they will happily spend more on a bottle of water.



Apart from finding the oil & gas, extracting it, transporting it, refining it and selling it so that you can drive your car and have products made of plastic, and fly to another country on holiday etc.

Edited to add a cut and paste:


Products Made From Oil



[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]Clothing Ink
Heart Valves

Crayons
Parachutes
Telephones
Enamel
Transparent
tape
Antiseptics
Vacuum bottles
Deodorant
Pantyhose
Rubbing
Alcohol
Carpets
Epoxy paint
Oil filters
Upholstery
Hearing
Aids
Car sound insulation
Cassettes
Motorcycle
helmets
Pillows
Shower doors
Shoes
Refrigerator linings

Electrical tape
Safety glass
Awnings
Salad bowl
Rubber
cement
Nylon rope
Ice buckets
Fertilizers
Hair coloring
Toilet
seats
Denture adhesive
Loudspeakers
Movie film
Fishing
boots
Candles
Water pipes
Car enamel
Shower curtains
Credit
cards
Aspirin
Golf balls
Detergents
Sunglasses
Glue
Fishing
rods
Linoleum
Plastic wood
Soft contact lenses
Trash bags
Hand
lotion
Shampoo
Shaving cream
Footballs
Paint brushes
Balloons

Fan belts
Umbrellas
Paint Rollers
Luggage
Antifreeze


[/TD]
[TD]Model cars
Floor wax
Sports car bodies
Tires
Dishwashing liquids

Unbreakable dishes
Toothbrushes
Toothpaste
Combs
Tents
Hair
curlers
Lipstick
Ice cube trays
Electric blankets
Tennis
rackets
Drinking cups
House paint
Rollerskates wheels
Guitar
strings
Ammonia
Eyeglasses
Ice chests
Life jackets
TV
cabinets
Car battery cases
Insect repellent
Refrigerants
Typewriter
ribbons
Cold cream
Glycerin
Plywood
adhesive
Cameras
Anesthetics
Artificial turf
Artificial
Limbs
Bandages
Dentures
Mops
Beach Umbrellas
Ballpoint
pens
Boats
Nail polish
Golf bags
Caulking
Tape
recorders
Curtains
Vitamin capsules

Dashboards
Putty
Percolators
Skis
Insecticides
Fishing
lures
Perfumes
Shoe polish
Petroleum jelly
Faucet washers
Food
preservatives
Antihistamines
Cortisone
Dyes
LP
records
Solvents
Roofing
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Yes but you dont get charged 60=70% duty and Vat on those. Petrol is actually a waste product.
 

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