Offshore Patrol Vessels

PhotEx

On ROPS
On ROPs
We are talking Singapore to start with not the Gulf.

And even when they are going to the gulf they can join all the other ships that only have that level of armament such as;

RN MCMVs
USN MCMVs
MN MCMV
USN PBs
USGC PBs
An actual B1 upgraded river class OPV!

And we know of the threat in the gulf so we have UK/coalition assets to support them.

*Edit*

I'm also well aware of the threat in the having been there at state one air raid warning red believing such things were inbound. I really do get it.

None of those MCMVs and PBs are 2,500 tonne warships.

And yet, planning assumption for T3I is it needs a credible level of organic self defence as no grown up warship may be around to protect them.
 
None of those MCMVs and PBs are 2,500 tonne warships.

And yet, planning assumption for T3I is it needs a credible level of organic self defence as no grown up warship may be around to protect them.
Its a 2,500 tonne warship with a crew of just less than 60. Why does the displacement matter? Its an OFFSHORE PATROL VESSEL, not a Corvette, not a Frigate and not a Battleship. Its no different than the Echo Class Hydrographic boats running around doing migrant ops, defense diplomacy and freedom of navigation stuff allover the world while displacing more and only being armed with 2X 20mm Gambos!

And that's because T31 is a FRIGATE!

Honestly its all in the names here..........
 
And the Peacock Corvettes were procured for a specific task in a time we had a much bigger navy with no threat of them being used as replacements for actual frigates. I notice they weren't kept long after the loss of Hong Kong?
more to the point they were at least part funded by the HK government, and IIRC the 3 inch gun was a local (and locally paid for) bit of the kit, not HMG, who basically wanted a replacement for the Tons and their 40mm Bofors.

shame we didn't keep them really, but they had non-standard ammunition and were partially crewed by Locally Enlisted Personnel so unless we were going to start handing out (more) passports not sure how we'd have done it.
 
Its a 2,500 tonne warship with a crew of just less than 60. Why does the displacement matter? Its an OFFSHORE PATROL VESSEL, not a Corvette, not a Frigate and not a Battleship. Its no different than the Echo Class Hydrographic boats running around doing migrant ops, defense diplomacy and freedom of navigation stuff allover the world while displacing more and only being armed with 2X 20mm Gambos!

And that's because T31 is a FRIGATE!

Honestly its all in the names here..........

I have no idea where you're getting your information from but you are clearly misinformed. They are clearly painted grey, so therefore are battleships.



Bloody newbie.
 
more to the point they were at least part funded by the HK government, and IIRC the 3 inch gun was a local (and locally paid for) bit of the kit, not HMG, who basically wanted a replacement for the Tons and their 40mm Bofors.

shame we didn't keep them really, but they had non-standard ammunition and were partially crewed by Locally Enlisted Personnel so unless we were going to start handing out (more) passports not sure how we'd have done it.

well 2 are still in service with the Irish Naval Service having been purchased in 1988…. There replacements are mooted to be 2 ex-RNZN Lake class IPVs
 

PhotEx

On ROPS
On ROPs
Its a 2,500 tonne warship with a crew of just less than 60. Why does the displacement matter? Its an OFFSHORE PATROL VESSEL, not a Corvette, not a Frigate and not a Battleship. Its no different than the Echo Class Hydrographic boats running around doing migrant ops, defense diplomacy and freedom of navigation stuff allover the world while displacing more and only being armed with 2X 20mm Gambos!

And that's because T31 is a FRIGATE!

Honestly its all in the names here..........

well to be strictly accurate, it’s not an OPV, we may call it one, but it was designed as a Missile Corvette.


let's not forget, we used to have real proper 4,500:tonne frigates armed with a couple of 40mm bofors.
T31 will be substantially better armed than a B1 T22 was.
 
well to be strictly accurate, it’s not an OPV, we may call it one, but it was designed as a Missile Corvette.


let's not forget, we used to have real proper 4,500:tonne frigates armed with a couple of 40mm bofors.
T31 will be substantially better armed than a B1 T22 was.
And the Canadians are designing/arming T26 as a destroyer ours will still be frigates...

I'm not sure what your arguement is with the last point mate?
 

PhotEx

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And the Canadians are designing/arming T26 as a destroyer ours will still be frigates...

I'm not sure what your arguement is with the last point mate?

our OPVs are doing a task formerly always done by similar sized 2nd rate Frigates, see the T21 and T81 before that, right back to Victorian colonial Frigates.
 
our OPVs are doing a task formerly always done by similar sized 2nd rate Frigates, see the T21 and T81 before that, right back to Victorian colonial Frigates.
And why does that have to effect the way we operate now? Or should we start laying down a few battle cruisers cos we always had a few battle cruisers. We do have a 1st rate ship of the line I guess.

And the plan is we eventually will! I'm m not saying we don't need frigates out there but the OPVs going now are the stopgap to show the intent and work is towards that goal.

The thing is I'm not saying that we don't need a frigate out there, or upgunning an OPV wouldn't be a good thing and that maybe they will end up in trouble on their own. What I'm saying is we only have the OPVs now so the only other option is nothing. Up gunning the OPVs will take time, money and manpower away from other more important capabilities. As I've said so many times before it's not so simple as bolting the damn thing on the front. And we will take the risks as we have been taking the risks with where we send out ships on their own as that's the job.
 

PhotEx

On ROPS
On ROPs
And why does that have to effect the way we operate now? Or should we start laying down a few battle cruisers cos we always had a few battle cruisers. We do have a 1st rate ship of the line I guess.

And the plan is we eventually will! I'm m not saying we don't need frigates out there but the OPVs going now are the stopgap to show the intent and work is towards that goal.

The thing is I'm not saying that we don't need a frigate out there, or upgunning an OPV wouldn't be a good thing and that maybe they will end up in trouble on their own. What I'm saying is we only have the OPVs now so the only other option is nothing. Up gunning the OPVs will take time, money and manpower away from other more important capabilities. As I've said so many times before it's not so simple as bolting the damn thing on the front. And we will take the risks as we have been taking the risks with where we send out ships on their own as that's the job.

the B2 OPVs are fulfilling exactly the same role as their predecessors which were specifically designed as ‘colonial gunboats’. They are effectively unarmed, yet they will operate alongside sister ships east of Suez that carry medium calibre guns, SHORAD and ASM’s.
They are chronically under armed for their new role, that’s freely accepted by their Lords and Masters. It restricts them to a strictly observer role, they lack any ability to impose alarm and distress upon even the most amateur of Her Majesties enemies. They don’t even have any means to keep an IRGC Boston Whaler with a 23mm and a battery of 107mm rockets at arms length.

And yes, it really is ‘as simple as bolting the damn thing on the front’. People involved with the project fought hard to retain the ability to bolt a gun up to 76mm on the front. Even a Mk4 40mm Bofors, (Which we are taking aboard as a core weapon system), would represent a very substantial increase in lethality, (and would give them a credible air defence capability), at very little extra cost and no extra manning impact.
 
@Yokel started this once interesting thread on 31 December 2017.

The discussion . . . disagreement . . . about whether OPV should be better armed, has now gone round the same buoy so many times, even I am bored :( .

Can I ask someone PM me, if/when anything new or innovative is posted on the thread ;) .
 
Last edited:
@Yokel started this once interest thread on 31 December 2017.

The discussion . . . disagreement . . . about whether OPV should be better armed, has now gone round the same buoy so many times, even I am bored :( .

Can I ask someone PM me, if/when anything new or innovative is posted on the thread ;) .
I strongly recommend you don't hold your breath.
 
the B2 OPVs are fulfilling exactly the same role as their predecessors which were specifically designed as ‘colonial gunboats’. They are effectively unarmed, yet they will operate alongside sister ships east of Suez that carry medium calibre guns, SHORAD and ASM’s.
They are chronically under armed for their new role, that’s freely accepted by their Lords and Masters. It restricts them to a strictly observer role, they lack any ability to impose alarm and distress upon even the most amateur of Her Majesties enemies. They don’t even have any means to keep an IRGC Boston Whaler with a 23mm and a battery of 107mm rockets at arms length.

And yes, it really is ‘as simple as bolting the damn thing on the front’. People involved with the project fought hard to retain the ability to bolt a gun up to 76mm on the front. Even a Mk4 40mm Bofors, (Which we are taking aboard as a core weapon system), would represent a very substantial increase in lethality, (and would give them a credible air defence capability), at very little extra cost and no extra manning impact.
No as long ranged PATROL boats. Just like the Tons, rivers, island and castle classes of old.

And the Mk4 isn't in service yet.

But yes agree with the whole bored of this conversation. I'm agreeing to disagree from here on out.
 
the B2 OPVs are fulfilling exactly the same role as their predecessors which were specifically designed as ‘colonial gunboats’. They are effectively unarmed, yet they will operate alongside sister ships east of Suez that carry medium calibre guns, SHORAD and ASM’s.

They arent though - its been made clear by others that they will be used to put in place ground work for crew swaps and forward basing and some presence tasks

When the T31s arive the tasks will expand accordingly

T31 may be used to help escort things through the red sea B2 wont
They are chronically under armed for their new role, that’s freely accepted by their Lords and Masters. It restricts them to a strictly observer role, they lack any ability to impose alarm and distress upon even the most amateur of Her Majesties enemies. They don’t even have any means to keep an IRGC Boston Whaler with a 23mm and a battery of 107mm rockets at arms length.
good job they wont be bothering IRGC vessels - yes yes youve repeatedly stated grey boaty thing will be used as a frigate as its there etc - the same retort stands now as then - Nobodies impressed a sanddown or hunt in that manner.

And yes, it really is ‘as simple as bolting the damn thing on the front’.

It is if you ignore training - manning requirements - ammunition stowage- integration with CIS and ships systems


People involved with the project fought hard to retain the ability to bolt a gun up to 76mm on the front. Even a Mk4 40mm Bofors, (Which we are taking aboard as a core weapon system), would represent a very substantial increase in lethality, (and would give them a credible air defence capability), at very little extra cost and no extra manning impact.
see above -
It could do all this but then it isnt the quick bolt on you suppose - if it is a quick bolt on then im sceptical that the only active sensor applicable aka the mk1 eyeball is going to result in a credible AA capability
 

PhotEx

On ROPS
On ROPs
It is if you ignore training - manning requirements - ammunition stowage- integration with CIS and ships systems



see above -
It could do all this but then it isnt the quick bolt on you suppose - if it is a quick bolt on then im sceptical that the only active sensor applicable aka the mk1 eyeball is going to result in a credible AA capability

the Mk4 requires no extra crew support over a 30mm.
The B2’s have the systems for feeding a Radar directed Bofors.
 
the Mk4 requires no extra crew support over a 30mm.
The B2’s have the systems for feeding a Radar directed Bofors.
I said I wouldn't do this....

Except all the people you have to send off for training including operators, maintainers and Defense munition armorers. Which isn't easy to manage or cheap to manage.

Plus that mount is much more complicated then a DS30M with a KCB 30mm cannon so would probably require a couple more WE maintainers to look after it.

And this gun isn't even in RN service yet!
 
Published by: Jonathan Day, FORCES NET, on 20 August 2021.

Striking Images Of HMS Severn Setting Sail With New WW2 Paint Scheme

The Royal Navy offshore patrol vessel has returned to the service – four years after she was decommissioned.

HMS Severn has set sail from Falmouth – boasting her brand new 'Western Approaches' paint job.
The Royal Navy offshore patrol vessel has returned to the service – four years after she was decommissioned.

Although her exterior may look similar to that of dazzle ships, Severn is in fact coloured in the 'Western Approaches' paint scheme – a nod to history and a mark of respect to the sailors who fought and died in the Battle of the Atlantic.

We went to see Severn before she left Falmouth.

[Follow link for video]

 
Even a Mk4 40mm Bofors, (Which we are taking aboard as a core weapon system), would represent a very substantial increase in lethality, (and would give them a credible air defence capability)
Against what? You might get a little bit more range, but at best a klick or two, which for more modern threats ain't all that. Rate of fire half that of a DS30, on-mount ammo, half that, muzzle velocity less. It's got new sexy ammo, but a game changer it is not.
 

jrwlynch

LE
Book Reviewer
And yes, it really is ‘as simple as bolting the damn thing on the front’.

Of course it is. There's no need for maintenance, or training crews. You don't need magazines with their associated safeguards.

Why, oh, why, have we wasted so much money on the Defence Ordnance Safety Group for so many years, when it's so simple and easy to simply bolt weapons onto platforms with no problems or issues at all?

People involved with the project fought hard to retain the ability to bolt a gun up to 76mm on the front. Even a Mk4 40mm Bofors, (Which we are taking aboard as a core weapon system), would represent a very substantial increase in lethality, (and would give them a credible air defence capability), at very little extra cost and no extra manning impact.

It must be wonderful to be so unencumbered by facts, knowledge or experience.
 

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