Offshore Patrol Vessels

Which really is where B2 OPVs should be Classified - they are actually as big or bigger than most peoples Frigates - see the opinion of some in the RN they should be up armed with a medium calibre gun, (no excuses now we’ve gone for the Mk110) and some lightweight missiles.
Not really - they are as big as peoples old frigates and 1 or 2 modern glorified corvettes masquerading as frigates.

Sticking on a big gun and missiles is going to up the Running cost - ups the crew required and reduces habitability and endurance - which rather defeats the purpose of having a large OPV.
 
Not really - they are as big as peoples old frigates and 1 or 2 modern glorified corvettes masquerading as frigates.

Sticking on a big gun and missiles is going to up the Running cost - ups the crew required and reduces habitability and endurance - which rather defeats the purpose of having a large OPV.

There is a middle ground though, and the Rivers fall considerably short of reaching that middle ground

They were designed for stronger armament and the Batch 2's have the architecture to support it.
They should be better armed than they are.
 
There is a middle ground though, and the Rivers fall considerably short of reaching that middle ground

They were designed for stronger armament and the Batch 2's have the architecture to support it.
They should be better armed than they are.
Why? They are there to provide useful presence, operate a helicopter and conduct peacetime operations. they're not built or manned to standards to take them into a warzone. Why bolt unnecessarily large armament to them and consume stores?

We have a finite budget. If we want genuine top tier warships we can send into harm's way confident they can handle themselves, that costs; if we want to make all of our warships fairly crap full-speed combatants, that means we have less money to buy and operate the top tier stuff. Or we just have to do without.

I suggest the Army has gone the other way, which is why it (doesn't) have AJAX.
 
There is a middle ground though, and the Rivers fall considerably short of reaching that middle ground

They were designed for stronger armament and the Batch 2's have the architecture to support it.
They should be better armed than they are.

I would go with could be rather than should be, its probably not a bad idea where theyre at - Should the global situation deteriorate we probably have the basis of the next gen Flower class as a basic convoy escort / MCM hull / coastal ASW patrol hull etc.
 
I would go with could be rather than should be, its probably not a bad idea where theyre at - Should the global situation deteriorate we probably have the basis of the next gen Flower class as a basic convoy escort / MCM hull / coastal ASW patrol hull etc.

They already could be

They were built for more armament
They are very much under armed as they are now
 
Not really, they use equally heavily manned RFA’s as de facto ‘colonial’ OPV’s
Did you just call an RFA heavily manned?

The only ship that has a baseline crew close to 140 is an old Fort boat which are now gone.

Bay and wave boats which are the ones that do the "WIGS" taskings are roughly 70 crew plus attachments. While being 5 times the size of an OPV.

And we go around the bouy again with the point that the OPVs are meant to provide a presence for the minimal cost so the rest of the money can be spent on the "frontline" warships, plus these OPVs were a contractual "bonus" to the RN that have to be manned and run in excess of the ships it had originally planned for. Adding X, Y and Z warry capabilities will take money away from getting capabilities onto 26 and 31 which will be actually able to do the things your trying to get this bloody OPV to do. Not to mention the manpower, training and support burdens of actually making and keeping it a useable capability.
 
Which really is where B2 OPVs should be Classified - they are actually as big or bigger than most peoples Frigates - see the opinion of some in the RN they should be up armed with a medium calibre gun, (no excuses now we’ve gone for the Mk110) and some lightweight missiles.
Going by tonnage a 45 and a 26 are light cruisers! And Victory is a frigate!
7” and 64lb guns were going to make an adversary of the day take note.
These were medium calibre guns de jure, definitely not the Victorian equivalent of a 30mm.
So the simple fact is that these are totally different technological eras. The 30mm is likely to put alot of HEIT rounds into said corvette while she is trying to get the range. It's a stupid comparison. And these ships had to operate on their own where the only way of getting information in and out was a dispatch boat that took months to get to the admiralty. It had to survive on its own against what ever it ran into and be unable to receive help as what help is coming isn't setting off for months and is getting there at 6 knots with lots of coaling stops.

Meanwhile the OPV is getting intel reports on the wider situation and if things change can ask for help instantly. That help can be there in hours on the form of fast air from UK or coalition forces. Meanwhile other units can be instantly retasked to head to there at 15 knots and able to RAS at sea on the way there.

Plus the threat the OPV is looking out for is not a French frigate raiding the colonies but a bloke with a WBIED. For which the 30mm and other weapons are fine.
 
There is an argument (not one I'm advancing) that the OPV is actually over-armed for role.

The consequence of these "but what about x?" questions is either something like the Arleigh Burke, which is really good at some of its (many) roles and fairly rubbish in others (while needing a monumental crew); or the RN wears out capable hulls doing niff-naff; or the government joins you in fitting out the RN to the Two-Power standard and the country sacrifices something else.

OPVs allow us to do things we otherwise wouldn't be able to do at all.
 
There is an argument (not one I'm advancing) that the OPV is actually over-armed for role.

The consequence of these "but what about x?" questions is either something like the Arleigh Burke, which is really good at some of its (many) roles and fairly rubbish in others (while needing a monumental crew); or the RN wears out capable hulls doing niff-naff; or the government joins you in fitting out the RN to the Two-Power standard and the country sacrifices something else.

OPVs allow us to do things we otherwise wouldn'ter be able to do at all.
"If a thing is worth doing . . . it is worth doing properly" .
 

ZW Clanger

Old-Salt
There is an argument (not one I'm advancing) that the OPV is actually over-armed for role.

The consequence of these "but what about x?" questions is either something like the Arleigh Burke, which is really good at some of its (many) roles and fairly rubbish in others (while needing a monumental crew); or the RN wears out capable hulls doing niff-naff; or the government joins you in fitting out the RN to the Two-Power standard and the country sacrifices something else.

OPVs allow us to do things we otherwise wouldn't be able to do at all.
Could do it better with more bangy things though :)
 

rampant

LE
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The East of Suez B2’s will get more teeth.
Even the low end of a Bofors 40 Mk4 would be a very substantial upgrade.

if more teeth isnt needed, why will their 1 4 1 replacements be armed with far more firepower.
 
The East of Suez B2’s will get more teeth.
Even the low end of a Bofors 40 Mk4 would be a very substantial upgrade.

if more teeth isnt needed, why will their 1 4 1 replacements be armed with far more firepower.
Do you mean the type 31?

Because ones a free gizzet due to contractual mandated work already paid for OPV and the others a frigate?
 

PhotEx

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Another new paint job

419EB6AC-D08B-4855-A4C2-8F49DDBDA6AC.jpeg
 

PhotEx

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Do you mean the type 31?

Because ones a free gizzet due to contractual mandated work already paid for OPV and the others a frigate?

Well, if the free gizzet can do the job with just a 30mm, why the replacement need so much extra teeth to do the same job?
 
Well, if the free gizzet can do the job with just a 30mm, why the replacement need so much extra teeth to do the same job?
Perhaps it isnt
Perhaps the scope of the task will increase once a T31 is on station -

until then our River class stalks around bothering illigal fishermen- harrasing pirates but not venturing into areas where for example theres a gurt big T45 showing the flag and encouraging mischief makers to leave shipping alone -

A task that perhaps T31 takes over
 

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