Offshore Patrol Vessels

Yokel

LE
Nice clip from Medway. Looks like they've manoeuvred that container into a slightly more convenient spot so they can use the flight deck.

Interesting to see a FLYEX just after putting to sea. Does the Caribbean role really involve lily-padding a helicopter? From where?

One you consider this map the worlds strategic maritime chokepoints, the logic is obvious

View attachment 445010
I know the OPVs will note patterns of life and contribute to maritime domain awareness as part of maritime security operations, but they cannot protect against air/missile/submarine threats.

This is just a misuse of Flag Foxtrot:

 
Interesting to see a FLYEX just after putting to sea. Does the Caribbean role really involve lily-padding a helicopter? From where?



I know the OPVs will note patterns of life and contribute to maritime domain awareness as part of maritime security operations, but they cannot protect against air/missile/submarine threats.

This is just a misuse of Flag Foxtrot:

all it needs to do in the Near East is develop a patterns of life picture.....

any requirement for muscle will be left to the Carrier Strike Group in what will be it’s normal stamping ground.

but the Indian Ocean is a big area, with two of our very crucial SLOCs going through it, unlike the French, we don’t maintain an enduring presence round and about the periferies, and with Brexit, we need to raise our game and profile.
 
I might have mentioned this before, but the hull form of the Bx1s meant that they had a nasty habit of shipping green water over the bows in a heavy sea making them very wet. The flared bow of the Bx2s means that they are less likely to ship green water over the bows. Needless to say, the "knuckle" form hull is cheaper to make than the flared bow.
 

Yokel

LE
all it needs to do in the Near East is develop a patterns of life picture.....

any requirement for muscle will be left to the Carrier Strike Group in what will be it’s normal stamping ground.

but the Indian Ocean is a big area, with two of our very crucial SLOCs going through it, unlike the French, we don’t maintain an enduring presence round and about the periferies, and with Brexit, we need to raise our game and profile.
Patterns of life is maritime domain awareness. You could even call it intelligence preparation of the battlespace. Also deterrence by presence.

Are you saying the Indian Ocean/Arabian sea will be the normal operating area exclusively - as we have made a commitment to NATO and the North Atlantic, Carrier Strike, and Future Commando/Amphibious Force are all closely related.

I thought Forward Basing was all about raising our profile?
 
Americans want out of the Gulf/NAS - they have more pressing business east of Singapore
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
I might have mentioned this before, but the hull form of the Bx1s meant that they had a nasty habit of shipping green water over the bows in a heavy sea making them very wet. The flared bow of the Bx2s means that they are less likely to ship green water over the bows. Needless to say, the "knuckle" form hull is cheaper to make than the flared bow.
I always knew that flares would come back into fashion.
 

Yokel

LE
Americans want out of the Gulf/NAS - they have more pressing business east of Singapore
I cannot see that happening any time soon - although they have energy security and the Carter doctrine may not be as relevant as it was, oil and gas is still important to US allies, and attractive to Russia and China. They also have regional allies to support.

The United States is still committed to NATO - see the recent standing up of the USN Second Fleet.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I cannot see that happening any time soon - although they have energy security and the Carter doctrine may not be as relevant as it was, oil and gas is still important to US allies, and attractive to Russia and China. They also have regional allies to support.

The United States is still committed to NATO - see the recent standing up of the USN Second Fleet.
Trump is trying to convert the Middle East beat into a NATO mission, with countries other than the US providing most of the resources. He's calling it NATOME (NATO + Middle East).

There's several reasons for this. One is that the US is increasingly over-stretched around the globe, while their top priority is China, not Europe or the Middle East.

Another is that Trump has an election coming up before long (I can't recall if it's this year or not), and part of his platform has been pulling the US military out of the Middle East as much as possible.

So yes, the US is committed to NATO. They're committed to having the rest of NATO extend their area of responsibility to cover areas outside of Europe, including the Middle East, so that the US can focus on confronting China in the Pacific.
 
Trump is trying to convert the Middle East beat into a NATO mission, with countries other than the US providing most of the resources. He's calling it NATOME (NATO + Middle East).

There's several reasons for this. One is that the US is increasingly over-stretched around the globe, while their top priority is China, not Europe or the Middle East.

Another is that Trump has an election coming up before long (I can't recall if it's this year or not), and part of his platform has been pulling the US military out of the Middle East as much as possible.

So yes, the US is committed to NATO. They're committed to having the rest of NATO extend their area of responsibility to cover areas outside of Europe, including the Middle East, so that the US can focus on confronting China in the Pacific.
NATO and ourselves can't be that daft. The USA stirred the pot and the Pres thinks it's now a walk away situation?
 
NATO and ourselves can't be that daft. The USA stirred the pot and the Pres thinks it's now a walk away situation?
I posted a video on the Ukraine airline crash and Iraq threads yesterday or the day before which covers this (among other things). In short, Trump's modus operandi for when things are not going his way is to do something disruptive in the hopes that the new situation will be more favourable. Or think of it as if when he's losing at a game of chess he grabs the board and throws it up in the air, in the hopes that when the pieces fall back down they'll land in a position which are favourable to him. This is why he "stirred things up".

His objective from the beginning was to walk away from the Middle East, aside from perhaps keeping a few bases there. Plan 'A' was to negotiate a new deal with Iran which would make that practical. Sanctions didn't work as Iran just dug in their heels so he tried "stirring things up" to see if that would help things along.

Plan 'B' is to still walk away from the Middle East, but to get the rest of NATO to deploy there and take over responsibility for it, something he's calling NATOME.

I would suggest watching the video if you want a fuller explanation.
 
Trump is trying to convert the Middle East beat into a NATO mission, with countries other than the US providing most of the resources. He's calling it NATOME (NATO + Middle East).

There's several reasons for this. One is that the US is increasingly over-stretched around the globe, while their top priority is China, not Europe or the Middle East.

Another is that Trump has an election coming up before long (I can't recall if it's this year or not), and part of his platform has been pulling the US military out of the Middle East as much as possible.

So yes, the US is committed to NATO. They're committed to having the rest of NATO extend their area of responsibility to cover areas outside of Europe, including the Middle East, so that the US can focus on confronting China in the Pacific.
I think the Nato treaty is mainly about mutual defence within the treaty borders. It is most definitely not about random, outside of treaty area, adventures. I would hope that the POTUS realises this sooner rather than later.
 
I think the Nato treaty is mainly about mutual defence within the treaty borders. It is most definitely not about random, outside of treaty area, adventures. I would hope that the POTUS realises this sooner rather than later.
If I recall correctly, it was the US who originally wanted NATO strictly limited to specified European borders, as they didn't want to get involved in defending the colonial possessions of European powers.

Now the US are the ones with third world client states and the Europeans are the ones who don't want to get involved in defending them, so it suits the Americans to change the rules.

In the days when the Soviet Union was the main rival to US power globally, NATO's existence as an expression of military power in Europe which directly confronted the USSR was useful to the US. Now Russia is a regional power only with limited ability to influence events outside that area. The centre of competition for global dominance is now with China in east Asia, where Europe contributes little or nothing to help the US.

This is why some Americans are increasingly seeing NATO as being a millstone around the neck of the US. It soaks up increasingly scarce US resources but only a few members (such as the UK, France, and a few others) are capable of contributing anything which is useful to the US.

So the question isn't what can the US do for European NATO, it's what can European NATO do for the US, given that the current government in Washington see Russia as being a lower priority concern? If Europe can't help the US out in a far more substantial way in the Middle East, then from Trump's perspective, what use is Europe to him?
 
The USN and the Gulf, Indian Ocean is a new thing on the block.
prior to the demise of our real fixed wing carriers, they spent much of their time East of Suez.

The USN is short of carriers.
it’s legally required to maintain 11, but in practice can only manage 8. It gets round the law by being ‘constructive’ with the length of refits, build cycles etc.

the US hasn’t been throwing so much money and resources at getting us back into big carrier game out of the goodness if its heart. We will be expected take up some of the slack and allow them to stop deploying one to the Gulf.

They are also keen to get the USMC up to speed at proper carrier ops rather than mud moving. Co deploying F-35B on UK carriers will be a huge training bonus for them and their ambition to run their 3 America class LHA’s as de facto light fleet carriers To close their carrier gap. They can’t do this on their own CVNs.

It’s all back to the future - America will do the Atlantic and Pacific, French will do the Mediterranean , we’ll take over the Indian ocean.
 
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Interesting to see a FLYEX just after putting to sea. Does the Caribbean role really involve lily-padding a helicopter? From where?



I know the OPVs will note patterns of life and contribute to maritime domain awareness as part of maritime security operations, but they cannot protect against air/missile/submarine threats.

This is just a misuse of Flag Foxtrot:

As others have noted, the sensor fit will be sufficient to establish and monitor the PoL in the Gulf.

It could also be a continuation of the old idea of speaking softly and carrying a big stick. In the post Sully Strike world Iran must be aware that acting like D’heads will may not be tolerated.

“the most dangerous weapon in the world is a man with a radio”

Whilst the OPV may not have a sufficient offensive (or even defensive) fit, knowing that there may be a Type 23 or a brace of F35’s (or perhaps an offensive weapon platform of an ally) over the horizon should keep the idiots in check.


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. . . . Whilst the OPV may not have a sufficient offensive (or even defensive) fit, knowing that there may be a Type 23 or a brace of F35’s . . . . over the horizon should keep the idiots in check.
Really . . . ?! . . . ;) .
 
The Batch 2 OPVs will do much the same role as the old Tribals did. 2nd tier constabulary duties in far away places.

interestingly, the Tribals were originally classified as Sloops, but were reclassified as Frigates to boost ‘Frigate‘ numbers.

history repeats and all that.
 
It looks like someone has been reading this thread!

HMS Medway sets sail for the Caribbean.

It also appears she has containers (for disaster relief?) onboard:

If those ISO containers are fully loaded, they will soon approach the 40 tonne additional weight that would be involved retro-fitting/adding, a “lilly-pad” flight deck to the original Batch 1 OPVs .

As well as a “lilly-pad” flight deck, been of no practical use (which is why they were included on the Batch 2 OPVs . . . ?!), it has been explained to us, that casually adding 40 tonne "above the water line" to an OPV will cause it to fall-over!! ;) .

1579952158778.png


First of all, stability isn't that simple (well, it is, but it's not). It's not a question of spare buoyancy and "using it up".

CLYDE would have been designed with a different underwater hull shape to account for the weight and location of the flight deck. Sticking 40 tonnes (or whatever) on the end of a ship, above the water line, has more effect than sticking 40 tonnes midships and below the waterline.

The B1's were never designed for this to happen, so to amend them would be massive work. Changing the meta-centric height, and location of centre of gravity, is not easy or to be done unknowingly. The RN demands a significant reserve (see NOTTINGHAM and ENDURANCE for details) where a civilian ship might have slightly finer tolerances . . . .
 
Good Heavens . . . . She is a big bugger . . . :oops: !!


NavyLookout‏ @NavyLookout, published 24 January 2020.

HMS_Medway on her first visit to Gibraltar - brief rest and replenishment stop on her way to the Caribbean.

1579953289388.png


 

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