Offshore Patrol Vessels

#62
Is this a part political move in view of the Brexit, cod hit the fan, extension of EU control of our waters to 2020?

Perhaps also to keep them in the UK for the present, as with plenty of time on their hull lives, they would be attractive to smaller navies?

Also if put back in service would op costs be part met by DEFRA, Home Office and Scottish Fisheries in view of their role?
Have no objection for EU boats fishing for plastic in our waters!
 
#63
No.

Why? Because the moment you add a missile you add a radar, you add a combat system, you add huge manpower requirements for extra WE etc, and you suddenly change the profile of the ship from a cheap and simple design to something that is a lot more complex, with implications that can echo a long way downstream.


If putting missiles on small ships was as easy as some think, don't you think the RN and others would have done it years ago?
Apologies for the late responses.

I agree with you that OPVs shouldn't Ben armed to the teeth, but wouldn't it be an idea to put something like seastreak on them?
 
#64
No.

Why? Because the moment you add a missile you add a radar, you add a combat system, you add huge manpower requirements for extra WE etc, and you suddenly change the profile of the ship from a cheap and simple design to something that is a lot more complex, with implications that can echo a long way downstream.


If putting missiles on small ships was as easy as some think, don't you think the RN and others would have done it years ago?
Apologies for the late responses.

I agree with you that OPVs shouldn't Ben armed to the teeth, but wouldn't it be an idea to put something like seastreak on them?
 
#65
Apologies for the late responses.

I agree with you that OPVs shouldn't Ben armed to the teeth, but wouldn't it be an idea to put something like seastreak on them?
No - because it adds cost and complexity for a requirement that really doesnt exist.
 

jrwlynch

LE
Book Reviewer
#66
Apologies for the late responses.

I agree with you that OPVs shouldn't Ben armed to the teeth, but wouldn't it be an idea to put something like seastreak on them?
Firstly, Sea Streak was a proposal, twenty years ago, that never got past concept art and a desktop model or two.

Secondly, it's expensive to fit, man and support any sort of useful air defence weaponry, because it's not just the weapon, it's the manpower to operate it, the stockpiles of ammunition, and the sensors and comms to allow it to be at all useful - hence why, for instance, MCMVs don't have any.

Thirdly, for most maritime threats, there's very little utility in MANPADS-type weapons: too slow to react, unable to defend against the dangerous stuff. There's an "uncanny valley" where you can spend a fair bit of money, and achieve no real value in return, before you start getting useful protection: this is one of the areas being examined very hard for Type 31e...
 
#67
If MANPADS are needed, the Royal Marines have an Air Defence Troop or Royal Artillery troops could be embarked. However, if an OPV is in that situation, it means she is doing the job of a fully armed frigate or destroyer.

I am quite interested in why the batch ones are going into extended readiness. It was on Forces TV too.
 
#68
Interesting news. Looks like some Brexit money is being put aside to retain the Batch Ones for fishery protection. So far it's little more than keeping them maintained in reserve but it's a step up on selling them off or scrapping them like expected.

Three River class Offshore Patrol vessels may be retained 'should they be needed to control UK waters'
What about the two Hunt Class MCM decommissioned before Christmas? Do they have a patrol boat role subject to some modification?
 
#69
Hunt class MCMVs were used for fisheries protection for many years, as was the Ton class before that. However, the availability of the River class OPV (RCOPV) was so good the MCMVs were relieved from this. Three converted Hunts also acted as Northern Ireland Patrol Vessels until 2005. So yes the class is capable of a patrol role, and doing boardings.

Money and manpower are the issues, as ever.
 
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#70
The sixth Royal Navy vessel to bear the name, HMS Trent will be armed with a
medium-calibre gun and a flight deck capable of accommodating a Merlin helicopter.


From the article on page 17 of the April 2018 edition of Desider.

I think they a referring to the 30mm cannon - however medium calibre gun normally means 4.5 inch of 5 inch type weapons!

Also see the other thread: Royal Navy prepares for future fish patrols
 
#72
HMS Forth Commissioning ceremony tomorrow (13/4). Sorry, no link just tweets.

Say what you will about the throughlife price tag, all five are costing less than one LCS ^~
 
#74
Commissioning a ship on Friday the 13th? Hmmm.
Just hope they remember(ed) the gold sovereign, that should be placed under the main mast . . . ;) !!
 
#75
HMS Forth is officially commissioned into the Royal Navy | Royal Navy

Designed for a total crew of around 58, but requiring only 34 to go to sea, she can spend up to 320 days a year on operations. The larger crew allows a rotation of personnel to ensure they get to spend time at home or on training.

Built by BAE Systems at their base on the Clyde, the new OPVs are four knots faster than their predecessors at 24 knots, have an increased range of 5,500 nautical miles, have a 30mm automatic cannon as their main armament instead of a 20mm gun, two Miniguns, four machine-guns and are equipped with two Pacific 24 sea boats.

Each ship has an extended flight deck to operate up to Merlin size helicopters and accommodation for up to 50 embarked Royal Marines for boarding and supporting operations ashore if required.


The flight deck is potentially a game changer as they can lilypad Merlin/Wildcat.

~
 
#76
HMS Forth is officially commissioned into the Royal Navy | Royal Navy

Designed for a total crew of around 58, but requiring only 34 to go to sea, she can spend up to 320 days a year on operations. The larger crew allows a rotation of personnel to ensure they get to spend time at home or on training.

Built by BAE Systems at their base on the Clyde, the new OPVs are four knots faster than their predecessors at 24 knots, have an increased range of 5,500 nautical miles, have a 30mm automatic cannon as their main armament instead of a 20mm gun, two Miniguns, four machine-guns and are equipped with two Pacific 24 sea boats.

Each ship has an extended flight deck to operate up to Merlin size helicopters and accommodation for up to 50 embarked Royal Marines for boarding and supporting operations ashore if required.

The flight deck is potentially a game changer as they can lilypad Merlin/Wildcat.

~
Plenty of space to get the head down,and hide from the buffer on normal ops,with no booties embarked then?:)
 
#78
Does that mean there is a pool of 58 to take the 34 out of or that there are 58 bunks?
It possibly means that in a "shooting war" when every post has to be manned 24/7 at "action stations", they would need 58.

But, when they are only "cruising around" watching Spanish trawlers, the ship can still operate safely and effectively with 34 ?!
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#79
It possibly means that in a "shooting war" when every post has to be manned 24/7 at "action stations", they would need 58.

But, when they are only "cruising around" watching Spanish trawlers, the ship can still operate safely and effectively with 34 ?!
Argentine Trawlers, as she's replace HMS Clyde as the Falklands Guard Ship
 
#80
It possibly means that in a "shooting war" when every post has to be manned 24/7 at "action stations", they would need 58.

But, when they are only "cruising around" watching Spanish trawlers, the ship can still operate safely and effectively with 34 ?!
UK Subs have either a two-crew or an augmented-crew system. The two-crew subs are exactly what the name suggests, the single crew subs have about 150% of the crew they need take to sea, and of the 50ish extra people, some will go to sea as "additionals" to enable them to gain the qualifications and experience they need to fulfill their rôle, and some will be left behind to take leave or attend training courses. The larger part of these extra people are engineering types who tend to be busy carrying out maintenance when the subs are not at sea, and therefore do not have the same opportunity for leave/courses during these periods. For a "shooting war" none of the normal "additionals" are required as a necessity, but others (who may or may not be part of the crew) would be taken to strengthen the resilience of the crew. I would guess that it is this augmented-crew model which is being adopted by these ships.
 

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