Official WW2 Photographs

[Signalman]

A nice shot of a 'jalpoied' Stuart there - don't see many of those, even though they were very common by the end of the Desert War.

The Marder III is one of the early Sdkfz 139 models (sometimes referred to as the Marder III Ausf G, as it was based on the hull of the cancelled Pz38(t) Ausf G) which was armed with the 76.2mm PaK 36(r). These guns were ex-Soviet M1936 76.2mm Divisional Cannon, re-chambered to fire 7.5cm PaK 40 ammo. Thanks to the large numbers of guns captured from the Soviets, these vehicles actually made it into service BEFORE the Marder II and the PaK 40-armed versions of the Marder III. Quite a few of these saw action in the Desert War and made a big impact at Gazala, coming as a nasty surprise when used in over-watch support of more weakly-armed German tanks and essentially cancelling out the arrival of the Grant's 75mm gun on the battlefield (being referred to at the time in British accounts as 'SP 88mm guns').

 

[Listy]

The IWM will take anything for free - then charge people to use them!

Charge excruciating amounts. I've seen quote of £800 for 11 images from them before. What's that you want me to blow my entire budget on 11 images from you because you're special?

Yeah, lets put that in a list of things that are not going to happen!


@Bee Companeeee Some of these are important. Especially the engineer unit trundling along in Stuart Jalopies.

You have several options.
1: donate to a museum, who will restrict them and make money from them, in a somewhat dodgy fashion.
2: Publish them yourself, but not many people will see them.
3: Get them into the hands a private collector.
4: Find someone big who will stick them up for free.
5: Flog them to a private individual.

 

[Murphy_Slaw]

Putteeinmy hands put us on the right track, the bottom image is shown elsewhere as Mersa Matruh 1942

No 1 army film and photography unit , Keating G Captain

Battle of Mersa Matruh - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Judging by the quality of the photography, coupled with the official sensors stamp and number, I would suggest they are official photos taken by someone with a bit of training. Regimental photographer perhaps, or a keen pre war amateur seconded into takeing official photos.
Certainly by D-Day the pros were using 35mm cameras like the Contax, but a Regt. photographer or amateur would probably have a Box Brownie or similar, which would tie in nicely with the neg size you mentioned in post #1.
Can you find any history of the photographers unit in his personal photos?

 

[Listy]

A nice shot of a 'jalpoied' Stuart there - don't see many of those, even though they were very common by the end of the Desert War.

Yeah that caught my attention as well. I have some documentary evidence about a Tank unit using them as APC's for engineers.

You better believe I'm down loading them!

 

[Stovepipe]

A nice shot of a 'jalpoied' Stuart there - don't see many of those, even though they were very common by the end of the Desert War.

The Marder III is one of the early Sdkfz 139 models (sometimes referred to as the Marder III Ausf G, as it was based on the hull of the cancelled Pz38(t) Ausf G) which was armed with the 76.2mm PaK 36(r). These guns were ex-Soviet M1936 76.2mm Divisional Cannon, re-chambered to fire 7.5cm PaK 40 ammo. Thanks to the large numbers of guns captured from the Soviets, these vehicles actually made it into service BEFORE the Marder II and the PaK 40-armed versions of the Marder III. Quite a few of these saw action in the Desert War and made a big impact at Gazala, coming as a nasty surprise when used in over-watch support of more weakly-armed German tanks and essentially cancelling out the arrival of the Grant's 75mm gun on the battlefield (being referred to at the time in British accounts as 'SP 88mm guns').

Gunter Halm won his Knight's Cross manning a Pak 36(r). The gun was dug into a shallow gun pit and already had a low silhouette, so it was practically invisible until it fired and it was lethal to any Allied tank of the time and it's velocity was such that it was initially believed to be an 88 of some new kind. When the Germans encountered them in Russia, they captured and reused as many as they could get, nicknaming it the "rasch-boom".

 

[Joshua Slocum]

Judging by the quality of the photography, coupled with the official sensors stamp and number, I would suggest they are official photos taken by someone with a bit of training. Regimental photographer perhaps, or a keen pre war amateur seconded into takeing official photos.
Certainly by D-Day the pros were using 35mm cameras like the Contax, but a Regt. photographer or amateur would probably have a Box Brownie or similar, which would tie in nicely with the neg size you mentioned in post #1.
Can you find any history of the photographers unit in his personal photos?

I looked his name up but nothing on the net for him

 

[Signalman]

Yeah that caught my attention as well. I have some documentary evidence about a Tank unit using them as APC's for engineers.

You better believe I'm down loading them!

One of the 3 RTR memoirs mentions using them in the RHQ Recce Troop (as well as retaining a whole squadron of Crusaders for recce). I think the only photo I've previously seen of one in North Africa was of a knocked out Scots Greys Jalopy, next to the grave of one its crewmen.

 

[wheelchairwarrier]

View attachment 419253

Just downloaded to kindle, thanks for the heads up.

 

[ugly]

Just downloaded to kindle, thanks for the heads up.

I should review these as I read hundreds every year

 

[Listy]

One of the 3 RTR memoirs mentions using them in the RHQ Recce Troop (as well as retaining a whole squadron of Crusaders for recce). I think the only photo I've previously seen of one in North Africa was of a knocked out Scots Greys Jalopy, next to the grave of one its crewmen.

Previously the only Desert picture of them, that was really common was this one:

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/ST07.jpg

but yeah I have a couple of docs on them, and possibly, if memory serves FAO's in Stuarts with fixed turrets on them.
I keep meaning to write it up, but you know, grown up writing gets in the away.

 

[Signalman]

Previously the only Desert picture of them, that was really common was this one:

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/ST07.jpg

but yeah I have a couple of docs on them, and possibly, if memory serves FAO's in Stuarts with fixed turrets on them.
I keep meaning to write it up, but you know, grown up writing gets in the away.

Funnily enough, I haven't seen that one before!

It's also the first photo of a Stuart V I've seen in the desert - it can only have been there five minutes before they whipped the turret off!

 

[Listy]

Funnily enough, I haven't seen that one before!

It's also the first photo of a Stuart V I've seen in the desert - it can only have been there five minutes before they whipped the turret off!

It was featured on the cringe worthy Wikipedia Kangaroo page. Claiming it was a Stuart Kangaroo...

The Driving factors for Jalopies were still evident in Africa, and another interesting bit, you'll note the gun on it.

 

[robinrocket111]

Funnily enough, I haven't seen that one before!

It's also the first photo of a Stuart V I've seen in the desert - it can only have been there five minutes before they whipped the turret off!

It was featured on the cringe worthy Wikipedia Kangaroo page. Claiming it was a Stuart Kangaroo...

The Driving factors for Jalopies were still evident in Africa, and another interesting bit, you'll note the gun on it.

If it's of interest, going up through Italy 2RTR in the 7th Armoured Division had around a dozen turret less M5 Stuart Vs. In the article I read, that's how the Regt describes them. No mention of Jalopies or Kangaroos.

 

[Listy]

If it's of interest, going up through Italy 2RTR in the 7th Armoured Division had around a dozen turret less M5 Stuart Vs. In the article I read, that's how the Regt describes them. No mention of Jalopies or Kangaroos.

Jalopy is an odd term, and is probably a very naughty one to use. It has been associated with turret less Stuarts for some years, but actually finding a source or origin myth for the phrase is all but impossible. It does however, serve as a very handy short hand way of describing exactly what you're talking about (Like using ".308", instead of "7.62mmx51"). Especially as there are a number of turret less Stuarts, like the high speed gun tractors, which were official conversions of the AFV. To make matters worse on the last point there was also an official turret less Stuart conversion with a cupola for recon work called the T8

On a personal level, I think it was @Signalman himself who taught me the phrase very many years ago, when we were having a very long conversation about Churchill tank brigades in 21st AG, so blame him!

As to "Kangaroo" that really was a Wikipedia foul up. Whichever nut had written it had assumed that here is a picture of a Stuart with its turret removed, therefore it was used as an APC, as RAM Kangaroo's were tanks without turrets. Therefore Kangaroo applies to every tank with its turret removed for use as an APC, even if they predate the Kangaroo workshop in Normandy.

 

[robinrocket111]

Can you imagine a Stuart being used as a APC Listy, with or without a turret you can only just get 4 blokes in a Stuart.

 

[Signalman]

Jalopy is an odd term, and is probably a very naughty one to use. It has been associated with turret less Stuarts for some years, but actually finding a source or origin myth for the phrase is all but impossible. It does however, serve as a very handy short hand way of describing exactly what you're talking about (Like using ".308", instead of "7.62mmx51"). Especially as there are a number of turret less Stuarts, like the high speed gun tractors, which were official conversions of the AFV. To make matters worse on the last point there was also an official turret less Stuart conversion with a cupola for recon work called the T8

On a personal level, I think it was @Signalman himself who taught me the phrase very many years ago, when we were having a very long conversation about Churchill tank brigades in 21st AG, so blame him!

As to "Kangaroo" that really was a Wikipedia foul up. Whichever nut had written it had assumed that here is a picture of a Stuart with its turret removed, therefore it was used as an APC, as RAM Kangaroo's were tanks without turrets. Therefore Kangaroo applies to every tank with its turret removed for use as an APC, even if they predate the Kangaroo workshop in Normandy.

In my defence m'Lud, I always used to call them 'Stuart Recces', as that was definitely a term used by the old boys, but have got into the habit of calling them Jalopies in recent years. I could have sworn I read it in a memoir, though...

I agree that 'Stuart Kangaroo' does not seem to have been a WW2 term. However, it was used post-war - a sadly departed mate of mine worked on them as a REME fitter assigned to the Irish Guards in the Middle East during the 1960s and he was very familiar with them. The Micks had Stuart Kangaroos in the 17pdr AT Platoon and MG Platoon and Oxfords in the Mortar Platoon.

 

[Signalman]

Now I think of it, I'm pretty sure it was in a Canadian report, regarding the mounting of assault pioneer sections in 'Stuart Jalopies' for the seizure of some river crossings in Italy. Lord Strathcona's Horse, I think...? Really scraping the depths of my memory here...

 

[AULD_SWEAT]

Can You imagine being closed up in that turret,in the desert heat,firing that gun repeatedly?

 

[Mediaeval]

View attachment 420222
Can You imagine being closed up in that turret,in the desert heat,firing that gun repeatedly?

It was an open backed turret - note the loader's seat hanging off the rear of the gun mount...

Here is a thumbnail from the Ian spring collection showing several newly arrived in North Africa. The front vehicle is a 139 (r) model and the others are Pak 40 variants...

 

[Goldbricker]

View attachment 419054

Bernard Lee was a Cpl?