Discussion in 'Officers' started by smithy749, Oct 6, 2005.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Officers generally get posted every 2 years. So just as they get to understand the job and become proficient at it they move on to another new job they spend 2 years learning, become profficient and move on. The cycle then continues. Added to this the lack of accountability when they leave and the inexperienced bloke coming in picking up the pieces. So does this mean the Army is run completely by people having a go and doing there best but not really understanding what they are doing!!
    This may be the root of the Army's problem lack of experience in the job. It would never happen across the board in civvie street. Yes you can move up but its one at a time and you stay there a while and there is continuety across the board providing valuable experience and stability
  2. Why is this in the Professionally Qualified forum? Surely it belongs in the Officers' Mess? Or even RHQ?

    Anyway, yes, it's true that the average SO3 (Capt) in his/her first staff appointment will tend to spend 6 months finding out how stuff works, a year doing his/her job, then six months preparing to hand over to his/her successor and gearing him/herself up for the next challenge. There can also be a large element of reinventing wheels every time a new SO3 is faced with a processual problem.

    However, an SO2 will have the past staff and RD experience to make the process of assimilation much shorter. An SO1 even more so, especially as - by this time - an officer should have identified specific areas of expertise (such as Training, Logistics or Doctine) on which he or she will concentrate. And the problem of tactical-level staff work ("tactical staff work"... is that the oxymoron of the week?), generally handled by SO3s, is being helped by the increasing employment of civil servants in permanent, clerk-type jobs who become the "corporate memory" at key desks.

    The alternative is to increase time in posts, thus increasing promotion time, reducing the breadth of officer knowledge and experience and suffering increased manpower wastage from personnel impatient for promotion.

  3. Agreed in general principle but is there not an issue with boarded posts in that we are selecting Officers to take up an appointment perhaps as much as 2 years from now, based on an OJAR which is already 12 months out of date? Problem even worse for E2 posts I would suggest.
  4. Good point Smithy, but I'm not to sure about it 'never happening in civvie street'. Compare to the 'Peter Principle' that everyone gets promoted to their level of incompetance. In otherwords, you promote because you are good at a job, until you reach a job you aren't good at and then remain there. Result, the company is populated by people who are going up the ladder or in a job that they aren't capable of.

    Very simple principle, and obviously not totally true to life, but we all reckon we know people who fit the mould. Reminds me of a similar thread running elsewhere on this site about good and bad COs....

    As IF says, it is good for breadth of knowledge, and tends to matter less above SO3. The other side is that we work in an organisation that always demands 100% output (at least!!). So if no matter how well you know your job there's still more you can do and mistakes you can still make, especially at Lt/Junior Capt level. Even if you were in post for 3 years people would still expect more of you and a better level of understanding.

    I'm now into my third year in my job, and I reckon I've almost worked it out. Almost... :wink:
  5. and now its time to move on and pass it to someone who doesnt undersatnd it and get yourself a job you dont understand and the cycle continues. Sadly when you assume a sqn/Coy cmdr or CO position what you dont understand will affect the quality of alot of peoples lives sadly.
    The reason i put it on here is that there are CO's of units in the AMS who have not served as officers in the field army since being newly qualified doctors 20 years ago. you may say well so what, but unless they have beem adjts they wont understand pers issues, OC jobs wont understand equip,admin,pers,trg issues, 2IC jobs Trg,securityetc so when they get to the top they dont have an overarching understanding of what they are in control off. So how can they run it??
    why have unqualified officers but doctors in charge. the bloke who runs the postal service was never a postman as the Gas coy was never a gas fitter. we need managers who are managers with management qualifications and experience. thats where the AMS goes wrong.
  6. Some good points in this thread already - as IF points out, this is probably not the best forum though, but hey. "Corporate memory" seems to me as being critical in a post, having been in mine for just over a year, I'm already seeing issues being raised by newly posted in staff officers, that were "done and dusted" months ago. It does make my life easier as I can change the date on previous answers, and reissue them. Overall though, its a pretty inefficient way of doing business!!!
  7. Ah, well, the issue of MOs without command or staff experience being appointed as MOs is a completely different question to the first one you raised, and would be better off asked on the Professionally Qualfied board. Suffice to say here that any answer is bound to involve reference to the new "command & staff cadre", intended to address exactly this problem.

  8. it was put on the medics site and moved!!!
  9. I agree with the 2 year thing - no matter how experienced you are, there remain certain jobs (DLO, DPA being typical examples) where the first 6 months are spent learning the regulations and all those aspects of ducking and diving that someone with 2 years behind them are already in the back pocket of someone who's been there longer. Questions take twice as long as necessary and there is room to drop the mother of all ball-locks. I'd be happy to be offered 3 years in post rather than 2 but oh no, that doesn't fit in with career patterns, blah, blah. Let's see some flexibility in the old Glasgow career map.
  10. MS_Rep

    MS_Rep RIP

    Its to do with having a full and varied career ok?

    Lets face it if you get a posting as an SO2 to PJHQ, MO or the Outer Hebrides, HM would not expect you to do more than 2 years :wink:

    Back in the 80's we had a paper on "The more stable Army" that considered 3 or 4 year tours, but this was ruled out for the reason above.

    On the staff side, once an officer has completed his/her IS job, tour lengths can vary from 2 to 3 years, with a chance to apply for an extension... no guarantees of course.

    There are no hard and fast No5 Board rules on this, as I understand it.