Officers Mess Accomodation and Civil Servants

Discussion in 'Officers' started by BBUK, Dec 6, 2007.

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  1. Over a G&T the other night, a colleague remarked on a recent event she witnessed whilst visiting at Chilwell, near Nottingham.

    A number of Civil Servants on a short pre-deployment course at RTMC stayed in a local (not cheap) hotel in preference to the available Mess accomodation (several empty rooms). Apparently, the Chilwell Mess was not of an "appropriate standard for their grade in the Civil Service" and they would not stay there. I gather they claimed 'equivalent ranks' varying from Maj up to Brig.

    I find this all rather odd and somewhat disappointing given they are 'deploying' to theatres with Regulars and Reserves of all ranks (many of whom pass through Chilwell), but can not accept the same conditions as the military in the UK. I gather from Channel 4 News that their generous operational allowances packages (up to a reported £30k pa) are considered realistic and justified by the risk and hardship they endure. Perhaps a 4/5 Star UK hotel is considered suitable pre-deployment training?

    I believe that the Chilwell Mess is good enough for a variety of officers up to and including the odd passing General. Apparently, a number of good folk from a Bde HQ, an Engr Gp and the RTMC even live there permanently! If it is really so poor, why are we not also placing visiting Officers and those Livers In into local hotels with sports centres, swimming pools and restaurants? Of course, military personnel could not claim unlimited actual costs for their restaurant meals and wine - only the allowed £20-odd per day - but they would surely be happier with their lot. Sorry, I may be becoming a tad cynical? What about the Seniors' and ORs' standards of accomodation ......?

    If that particular Mess was genuinely not good enough for these people, it surely could not be for those Officers of 'equivalent rank' to the Civil Service! Perhaps our colleagues in the Civil Service could apply themselves to finding the cash to raise the standard to a level good enough for their very brief visit? Those of us in green at all levels might then derive some long term benefit from the efforts of our esteemed Civil Service. I always remain the optimist! :D

  2. Ok I'll bite

    Given the choice, who would stay in ANY service mess if you had an alternative CS or not?
  3. Or as an ex snco why the fcuk would I want to drink with a bunch of rodneys and conform to some poxy dress standard when I can now chill
    out doon toon.

    Regards HH
  4. Good on them for volunteering to deploy - but I wonder if they will apply the same criteria to the colpro when the incoming starts to arrive in the compound ?

    I have experienced the same nonsense when in a staff role and visting training facilities. The "Green" members of the team stayed on site in spartan but adaquate facilities while the CS members of the team decamped each evening to a hotel in town. Don'tcha just love teamwork ?
  5. This always seems to happen with RAF too. The number of times on exercise all RAF staff (including drivers etc) have had to go and stay in a hotel while AAC stayed under canvass. Also I remember when working in LAND an RAF staff officer went to a dining-out at Benson. He ensured that he got non-availability chit so that he stayed at a hotel (at public expense) and he got the LAND MT to drive him there and back. I'm sure we have all had the same experience of our light-blue bretheren, but it still makes my blood boil! :x
  6. I can't speak for the individual case but unfortunatly this does happen.

    It's mainly from those members of the Civil Service that even fellow civies are ashamed of, but can often come from a simple ignorance of what the mess is.

    One of my (loosely connected) CS colleagues refused to stay in the mess with us at Waddington because she didn't know if it had toilets and whether she'd have to eat rations. As ridiculous as it sounds she was serious. As a slight aside I've never met such an oxygen thief in my life.

    All I can say is that those who are unfortunate to work with the Civil Service encourage and educate people in the benefits of the mess and the savings that can be made to defence by their use (a Civil Service Core Competence no less).
  7. I do feel that the point is not what we would all like to do.....
    service mess V nice hotel??
    However the more money these soft tw*ts spend on their comfort the less there is for Toms. It is all MoD money and I'm certain that the young soldiers dererve it far more than fat CS or RAF jelly fish!
  8. Further to my last rant......

    My Unit requested instructors from DTS, officer equivalent don’t you know. They refused to stay in the mess. Turns out they can claim far more cash if they are in a hotel. Boy were they pissed when they were ordered to use the available mess accommodation!
  9. The point is that CS as part of their terms and conditions are allowed allowances and a 'standard' of accom when they are away from their normal duty station. Now called me old fashioned by as a Tom, if I was given the choice Mess or Comfy Hotel I know which one I would take. On the other hand take that option away from the CS without some form of allowance, wage increase etc the choice will be........ Why should I give up my comfy bed? Do your own finance, contracts etc on Ops
  10. How about this for a radical idea? Go away, get some facts and then have a rant without resorting to making pish up.
  11. The best bet is to open the CS up to competion make its employement contacts and recruitment dissmal more that of a private buiness. If the market demands they get hotel so be it, if it does not they slum it.
  12. Incorrect.

    Much as I have issues with CS they are entitled to accommodation of a certain standard and cannot be 'ordered' to occupy anything that does not meet this standard. Unfortunately, much military mess accn is simply nowhere near the mark in terms of quality and it is not unreasonable to expect en-suite facilities, a decent bed, a tv in the room, internet access, and meal timings that take account of the visitor and not the staff.

    None of these are luxuries and all messes and JRSLA should have them as standard. Rather than try and drag others down to our exceedingly low standards we should rather aspire to reach theirs.
  13. Fred Excellent Idea, I'm sure ST2B would love the wage increase to bring him into line with the private sector, also when was the last time you saw an MOD contractor slumming it? The Fujitsu guy on Telic 3 was earning more in a day than most Tom's earned a month, His six month contract would have probably paid a Battalions Wage bill for a month! He came Complete with his own ensuite corimec and no he wasn't fussy about who's hole he got in when the Alarm went off :lol:
  14. onStab, I can guarantee that what I have stated is fact. CS are not entitled to use hotels when equivalent service accommodation (equivalent to their grade) is available. It was the Comd DTS that ordered his instructors to use the mess at Chatham! They don’t like it but those are the rules. Would you like me to dig the regulation out for you.

    As for comfy beds, well many CS have a remit to travel and leave their nice beds. There is nothing that says they must have nice hotels. It is this sort of ignorance that spends more of the defence budget than is necessary.
  15. If it is low then why dont CS gets these majical private sector jobs?