Officers LSGC Medal - Backdating Petition

chimera

LE
Moderator
#1
#5
Oh FFS - it is a medal which to earn, all you have to do as an Officer is serve for 15 years and not get a disciplinary. It is not exactly fixing bayonets and charging uphill against enemy MG.

Officers should be able to serve for 15 years and not get a disciplinary entry.
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#6
Could I get a back dated V.C. for getting a splinter in my finger along with 2 stitches in my noggin, while playing indoor rugby in the Tudor Bar in Ebrington Bks Londonderry? I didn't cry once honest.
 

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
For the Ruperts out there, another one of those petitions to old the old and bold who served before 2014 to get a LS&GC:

Petition: Make the Long Service medal available to officers who retired before July 2014

Don't hold your breath.
The idea of the LS medal I understood (wasn't bothered either way, but understood), some recognition to add to the "offer", but it comes at a cost.

Some may say the cost is broadly insignificant in a company with a £32Bn budget but, a decision was made to draw the line to establish the LS, using the LS&GC to reduce costs, at an acceptable level.

There will always be those unhappy when lines are drawn, but to use a phrase from one of my best Warrants - "people aren't dipping out, some are just dipping in more".

How far back do people really think was needed and is worth funding? <----------[Rhetorical!]
 
#9
What about a GSM for Belize while you are at it?
 
#10
From the petition map, the 'hotspot' (29+ signatories) seems to be North Wiltshire - nice and close to old stomping grounds on Salisbury Plain. I wonder how much the overall map actually correlates to officer retirement areas - very few in Scotland, Northern Ireland or London?
 
#12
Shouldn't it be the LS & GC Cross-they are officers after all!
 
#13
. . . and that's what happens when Them That Know Better start faffing about with qualification dates.

The Holmes Report tinkered with the dates for Cyprus 63/64 and SAM82: the institution of one new WWII star (Arctic Star) and one new clasp ('Bomber Command') were (to my mind) nothing more than a cynical PR exercise as, certainly for the latter two awards, the number of survivors who would/could claim would be down in the very low hundreds.

Stir in a small measure of WhatAboutMeThen and the subject becomes a right PITA.

Personally, I think we should go the 'Stralian route: leave it for about 20 years, light a fire under some vested interests when it gets close to election time and Hey! presto-up to 5 medals and clasps covering the same period.
 
#14
Oh FFS not this shite again...

What is needed is a 4th medal type which focuses on operational deployments that arent risk and rigour focused but recognise service away from home.
 
#15
2 days to get another 9,000 signatures

The petition close on the 3rd May because of the GE all petitions are closed down

Watch this space after June 2017

Archie
 
#16
Oh FFS not this shite again...

What is needed is a 4th medal type which focuses on operational deployments that arent risk and rigour focused but recognise service away from home.
No. Jim. No, it doesn't - go and have a quiet sit in a corner and reflect on what you've just said.

2 days to get another 9,000 signatures

The petition close on the 3rd May because of the GE all petitions are closed down

Watch this space after June 2017

Archie
Why? What's happening? The fragrant Diane implodes post-election thus, simultaneously, solving global warming AND proving the existence of the God Particle?

The whole process began as yesterday's chip wrapper and went downhill from there.
 
#17
No. Jim. No, it doesn't - go and have a quiet sit in a corner and reflect on what you've just said.



Why? What's happening? The fragrant Diane implodes post-election thus, simultaneously, solving global warming AND proving the existence of the God Particle?

The whole process began as yesterday's chip wrapper and went downhill from there.
The big problem at the moment is that there are a significant number of deployments going on such as MCMV crews in OP KIPION who are doing multiple (as in 4 plus) 4 month deployments away from home, in an arena which has potential to become very nasty very quickly and where they are separated from families and put up with the rigour of deployed life, and are expected to keep doing this ad infinitum for their entire career. Particularly for the MCMV force which is small and keeps rotating its people through Bahrain on a regular basis (usually on a 4-6 month on rotation).

My sense is that what is needed is a 'Operational Deployment' medal which (for sake of argument) is aquired after 180 days accrued deployment time in a theatre which has an operational name /CDS Directive in play, but does not accrue any form of medallic recognition.

The medal would be awarded, potentially with clasps for further periods of 180 days service to capture the complex world where people are deployed away from home, doing something valuable but not gaining recognition for it. It wouldnt count to an ACSM qualification, and as a sole medal it can be used for generic awards over time as a great way to recgonise people like those in Cyprus on Op SHADER who are not 'at risk' but who are away from home.

Perhaps @alfred_the_great could chip in with his experiences here from an RN perspective?

Medallic recognition is a growing issue for people who are spending a chunk of their careers overseas. And its a good way of saying thankyou. Paradoxically it may also be a retention incentive as it means people may well want to go on tourif it helps them accrue qualifying time for it. Bear in mind that many of the areas getting dicked for this work are PVR high, and a small gesture like this may make a meaningful difference.

We have to be much, much better at recognising that not every deployment involves being shot at or at risk, but that being away from home on repeated deployments in a short time can, and does, really impact on people. 'Suck it up princess' should no longer be our default answer..
 
#18
@jim30 - some valid points and (some) are historically supported: the clasps 'Bomb and Mine Clearance 1945–49' and 'Bomb and Mine Clearance 1949–56' for the GSM 1918-62 and the Naval GSM, clasp 'MINESWEEPING 1945–51' for the NGSM and the clasps 'Mine Clearance Gulf of Suez' and 'Gulf' to the GSM 1918-62 set a precedence.

Where the benchmark of 'risk and rigour' has been met, then medallic recognition will - mostly - follow.

However.

The period before, during and after the 1916 Easter Rising was as hot an insurgency as you might wish to see. British casualty figures for that period are usually given as 143 killed and 397 wounded-and yet no medallic recognition. Politically, such a move was viewed as acknowledging that a 'war' was being fought on British soil. And yet 'risk and rigour' there was in plenty. Army fatalities during that period were acknowledged by the award of the WWI Memorial Plaque, as were all deaths in service during that period. But no medal.

Move forward to 1969 and the Government of the day was, again, involved in turbo handwringing: men and women were serving and dying on the streets and fields and lanes of a part of the UK-should that service be acknowledged? To this day, the clasp 'Northern Ireland' is the only medal awarded for service solely within the UK.

And that is how the world should turn, IMO.

A 'Operational Deployment' medal for 180 days? OK, not a problem-except for chap/chapess who is sent back home at, say, the 160 day point. Or 170 day point. He/she has 'enjoyed' the privilege of being away from hearth and home for a considerable period-but no medal for that person. He mutters and bitches a bit but the rule says 180 days. An arbitrary figure and he has not met the criteria.

OK, then, institute a totting up system so that the 180 days does not have to be consecutive and gaps allowed (much like the accumulated service for ACSMs). But he doesn't deploy any more and his service runs out and he is still bare-chested.

He is oft quoted for this but I think WSC Churchill got it right (the medal-hunting old buffer): 'The object of presenting medals, stars, and ribbons is to give pride and pleasure to those who have deserved them. At the same time a distinction is something which everybody does not possess. If all have it it is of less value … A medal glitters, but it also casts a shadow.' (Speech to the HoC, March 1944).
 
#19
Look at Oz - ASM & AASM. I was fortunate to get the latter, every ****** got the former!
 
#20
Oh FFS not this shite again...

What is needed is a 4th medal type which focuses on operational deployments that arent risk and rigour focused but recognise service away from home.
Hey! I want a Berlin one!
(Circular in shape, watered silk ribbon).
 

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