Officers and soldiers HE qualifications

Discussion in 'Officers' started by Cardinal, Sep 27, 2006.

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  1. I am a TA/FTRS SNCO with a decent BA from a good University and a Dip HE from a not so good university. Why does the army recognise such qualifications in officers as evidence of achievement and intellect but not in soldiers?

    I have been told the army does not care that I have these qualifications since as a soldier they say nothing about my ability and character.


    I would love to understand the reasoning behind this.

  2. elovabloke

    elovabloke LE Moderator

    I presume you mean Officer's and OR's, even ruperts attempt to be soldiers some times. Apart from that, good question but would it not depend on the subject and/or your particular military role?
  3. note in gaining a degree and its recognised as a measure of ability and intellect for officers regardless of the subject studied or appointment held, why not the same for OR's?

  4. It is all to do with ante-dated seniority and is a throwback to the Army needing technically-minded officers with technical degrees.

    Now that 85% of officers are graduates, removing the advantage is of no use to recruiting...

    May I ask what you actually want the Army to do about your degree? Is it relevant to your employment in the Army?
  5. Cardinal,

    Good point and well made. Surely, if someone is keen enough to crack on with personal development and to better themselves, they should be rewarded.

    Something like.....go up an increment level upon acheiving a qualification above a certain standard (eg Minimum of NVQ 4 or OU Diploma).
  6. Because they don't require such qualifications in soldiers - you'd be raising the qualification achievement bar for no recognisable benefit to the system.

    If you look at the education requirements for new recruits, with a few professional exemptions (like nursing etc) 5 GCSE's @ C's is enough to get you into most trades (some don't even need that) - so that's who your peers are.

    What sort of recognition would you be looking for? Have you thought of applying for a commission?
  7. cpunk

    cpunk LE Moderator

    I imagine that the reason that officers get a small increase in seniority for having a degree is because it acknowledges that they are:

    a. Normally starting their careers slightly later than non-graduates, but having done something which has (probably) added to their personal development, maturity and so on. I suspect that it was originally designed to ensure that grads and non-grads of the same age group became eligible for promotion at roughly the same time.

    b. Also, they've made themselves more employable outside the army and thus might require a small added incentive.

    In any case, it doesn't actually make a huge amount of difference, unlike PQOs who are paid on different scales.
  8. It was as a recruiting incentive - if grads & non grads got the same pay on entry, there would be no incentive to join as a grad. It isn't so much extra pay, just entry further up the ladder to compensate for the time spend in uni rather than in the military.
    If you get additional qualifications whilst serving you get nothing extra. So, it is a recruiting incentive, nothing else.
  9. Just to clarify....not all PQOs are paid on a different scale. In fact, most PQO professions get paid on exactly the same scale as everyone else.
  10. The way things are heading in most other jobs/professions, a degree in infantry studies will soon be a pre-requisite of entry to the ranks let alone a commission.
  11. cpunk

    cpunk LE Moderator

    Really? I was under the impression that doctors, vets, lawyers and chaplains were on different scales.
  12. Doctors and dentists are on higher pay scales.

    I think the vets and chaplains are on ordinary scale.

    Lawyers, nurses, physios and pharmacists are definitely paid the same as the rest of the Army. If I have forgotten a PQO profession then I apologise!
  13. Bingo.

    A higher education qualification is used as one of many measures of an officer's intellectual capacity to absorb the information required to exercise his responsibilities as a leader or staff officer (and not a mandatory measure). Hence, (technical/professional degrees aside) the officer recruitment system treats a degree in fine art as having the same merit as a degree in quantum physics for potential officers in, say, the RLC. In-service degrees are different, and are treated as pre-employment training.

    Unless the organisation required you to have your degree, what does it gain? You may have proven your existing intelligence, but have not necessarily benefitted the organisation in any way.

    Personally, I'd love to do a degree in Movie and Film Studies, but what benefit would this give the firm?
  14. woopert

    woopert LE Moderator

    I think the fact that you are TA/FTRS is crucial here. I know that there are a number of TA "Toms" out there with jobs and quals better than many of their officers, and so it isn't as uncommon to see a TA Pte or L/Cpl with a degree and professional job in civvie strasse. To that end you are volunteering to serve in a role/rank.

    I think if you were a reg with a decent BA and a Dip in something useable/relevant then chances are you would find an LE commission quite attainable or if under the max age for DE would be slotted into RMAS with your "peers".
  15. Cardinal has not mentioned any aspiration for a commission - he is merely asking why his qualifications do not count for anything in his job/hobby. I am perpetually amused by the fraternity that assume academic ability is the same thing as leadership ability, although I don't believe that is the point Cardinal is trying to make - is it?.

    Academic ability/achievement is a good indicator of one's ability to process information, but not an indicator of one's ability to lead soldiers (yes - I mean officers and OR's!). If it was, Stephen Fry would be in the SAS..... :roll:

    ...then you would probably fit one of the following criteria:

    a) Went to university, joined the Army without realising that Officer selection was an opportunity open to you. (In that case, you would have lacked initiative!!!!!! This would not happen as you would have been picked up somewhere between the careers office and phase 2 training)
    b) Went to university, tried for a commission but failed.
    c) Joined as an OR, busted your gut in your minimal spare time, in order to better yourself - in which case, regardless of your qualification, your effort/drive would single you out to a great extent.

    a) and c) are less likely than b). :D