Officer Cadets parading with sword at Sandhurst

#1
Hello,
Can anyone in the forum tell me what Officer Cadets - other than Senior Under Officer Cadet and Junior Under Officer Cadets - parade with a sword? Thank a lot
 

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#3
It used to be the case that the Senior Division all passed out with swords, although apparently they have recently changed to parading with rifles, less JUOs and SUOs.


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#4
If your question is 'why' not "what", then the answer is simple: up until the mid-90's only the SUO and JUOs would go on the parade with swords, everyone else would be carrying rifles.

Then the Commandant of RMAS's daughter (It went Hew Pike, Some Light Infantry chappie by the name of Jack Deverril (sp) and then this ex-SAS johnnie) went on the course and wanted to commission with her grandfather's sword (or something like that). As she wasn't a SUO or JUO the Commandant changed it so that all commissioning cadets would parade with swords. The logic behind it was that when they reached their regiments they would only ever parade with swords, so this would (hopefully) improve the woeful standard of sword drill of young (and old) officers on regimental duty.

Edited to add: Thanks Alan for pointing out that it has apparently reverted to the old ways.
 
#5
If your question is 'why' not "what", then the answer is simple: up until the mid-90's only the SUO and JUOs would go on the parade with swords, everyone else would be carrying rifles.

Then the Commandant of RMAS's daughter (It went Hew Pike, Some Light Infantry chappie by the name of Jack Deverril (sp) and then this ex-SAS johnnie) went on the course and wanted to commission with her grandfather's sword (or something like that). As she wasn't a SUO or JUO the Commandant changed it so that all commissioning cadets would parade with swords. The logic behind it was that when they reached their regiments they would only ever parade with swords, so this would (hopefully) improve the woeful standard of sword drill of young (and old) officers on regimental duty.

Edited to add: Thanks Alan for pointing out that it has apparently reverted to the old ways.
Thank you very much. So I can take it that only those OCs with swords are going to be commissioned, plus SUOCs or JUOCs of their course. Can't I?
 
#6
Thank you very much. So I can take it that only those OCs with swords are going to be commissioned, plus SUOCs or JUOCs of their course. Can't I?
I'm not sure I understand your question. Carrying a sword has no bearing on if you're due to commission on that particular parade. As I mentioned earlier, the Senior Division at Sandhurst parade with rifles now and they all commission after the commissioning parade.
 
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Mr_Logic

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#7
Hello,
Can anyone in the forum tell me what Officer Cadets - other than Senior Under Officer Cadet and Junior Under Officer Cadets - parade with a sword? Thank a lot
Why would you want or need to know this? How will knowing this change your life? Proper officers are taught sword drill at some point while at RMAS. Do you need to know more than that?
 
#8
If your question is 'why' not "what", then the answer is simple: up until the mid-90's only the SUO and JUOs would go on the parade with swords, everyone else would be carrying rifles.

Then the Commandant of RMAS's daughter (It went Hew Pike, Some Light Infantry chappie by the name of Jack Deverril (sp) and then this ex-SAS johnnie) went on the course and wanted to commission with her grandfather's sword (or something like that). As she wasn't a SUO or JUO the Commandant changed it so that all commissioning cadets would parade with swords. The logic behind it was that when they reached their regiments they would only ever parade with swords, so this would (hopefully) improve the woeful standard of sword drill of young (and old) officers on regimental duty.

Edited to add: Thanks Alan for pointing out that it has apparently reverted to the old ways.
This is obviously one of those "Halley's Comet" activities at RMAS which comes round and re-invents itself periodically before returning back to the obscurity of the Ork Cloud. I don't know if it was the first time, but under the rainbow reign of Commandant Maj Gen "Touch me" T**er in 1970, swords on the Sovereign's Parade for all those being commissioned became "de rigeur". Also introduced were longer haircuts that didn't look so "butch" and the order that cadets working off RoP's maintaining the grounds near the Confidence Course had to be stripped to the waist showing their glistening, rippling muscles when the Comdt made his visit at weekends. Allegedly...........
 
#9
Why would you want or need to know this? How will knowing this change your life? Proper officers are taught sword drill at some point while at RMAS. Do you need to know more than that?
It was just out of a fit of curiosity. I agree that it won't change my life. I'm only a uniforms buff. Cheers
 
#10
Why would you want or need to know this? How will knowing this change your life? Proper officers are taught sword drill at some point while at RMAS. Do you need to know more than that?
Maybe the OP could ask a question about bicycle drill which I believe used to be taught? (a long time ago; albeit not in a Galaxy far, far away).
 
#11
I'm not sure I understand your question. Carrying a sword has no bearing on if you're due to commission on that particular parade. As I mentioned earlier, the Senior Division at Sandhurst parade with rifles now and they all commission after the commissioning parade.
Thank you Alan for your attention. If it's ALL the Senior Division that commission after the commissioning parade, if they all carry rifles but SUOCs and JUOCs, then Dread's answer'd make little sense. But, still then, who are those Cadets, who are neither SUOCs nor JUOCs, but parade with swords? May it be that Dread is right? Cheers
 
#12
Thank you Alan for your attention. If it's ALL the Senior Division that commission after the commissioning parade, if they all carry rifles but SUOCs and JUOCs, then Dread's answer'd make little sense. But, still then, who are those Cadets, who are neither SUOCs nor JUOCs, but parade with swords? May it be that Dread is right? Cheers
It's simple. All ocdts parade with rifles, bar those JUOs and one SUO who carry swords.

The front column of the parade as demonstrated in any video you care to watch is the senior term. They all commission that day.

Other than the SUO and JUOs, no ocdts are taught sword drill which explains why no ****** can do it.



To complicate things, the JUOs of the intermediate term in the second column are not definitely the JUOs by the time they commission, they're just the top two in the plt at the end of the intermediate term.

There's one SUO who is the sword of honour winner, and is presented his sword by the senior guest present, whether it be HM, Call me Dave, Gen Petraeus or any other ****** invited to do so.

And that's before we say that all on parade are carrying swords 'cos they're fixed to their rifles...
 
#13
I believe proper swords (Claymore's) are also used by the Officer Cadets for the Highland Dancing Class, which includes the Sword Dance and the Fairy Dance !
 
#14
Thank you Alan for your attention. If it's ALL the Senior Division that commission after the commissioning parade, if they all carry rifles but SUOCs and JUOCs, then Dread's answer'd make little sense. But, still then, who are those Cadets, who are neither SUOCs nor JUOCs, but parade with swords? May it be that Dread is right? Cheers
I suspect this is a photo of a commissioning parade that took place before the change of swords to rifles for Senior Division (2008?)


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#15
Maybe the OP could ask a question about bicycle drill which I believe used to be taught? (a long time ago; albeit not in a Galaxy far, far away).
I found it to be one of the more useful skills I learnt at RMAS (and I can still remember it, which is more than I can say about a lot of things).

Cue old stories about overseas cadets who could not ride a bike........
 
#16
It's simple. All ocdts parade with rifles, bar those JUOs and one SUO who carry swords.

The front column of the parade as demonstrated in any video you care to watch is the senior term. They all commission that day.

Other than the SUO and JUOs, no ocdts are taught sword drill which explains why no ****** can do it.



To complicate things, the JUOs of the intermediate term in the second column are not definitely the JUOs by the time they commission, they're just the top two in the plt at the end of the intermediate term.

There's one SUO who is the sword of honour winner, and is presented his sword by the senior guest present, whether it be HM, Call me Dave, Gen Petraeus or any other ****** invited to do so.

And that's before we say that all on parade are carrying swords 'cos they're fixed to their rifles...
When I said "swords", I meant swords, not bayonets.Probably, you have not watched the photo I sent at the start of this thread, which shows two cadets carrying a sword; one has plain shoulder straps, which I believe classify him as an OCdt; the other has silver-bordered straps,which should classify him as a JUOC (SUOCs wearing same straps with RMAS badge superimposed). Maybe they have not been taught sword drill, but they do carry a sword. Still your idea is that they are JUOCs in disguise?
 
#17
When I said "swords", I meant swords, not bayonets.Probably, you have not watched the photo I sent at the start of this thread, which shows two cadets carrying a sword; one has plain shoulder straps, which I believe classify him as an OCdt; the other has silver-bordered straps,which should classify him as a JUOC (SUOCs wearing same straps with RMAS badge superimposed). Maybe they have not been taught sword drill, but they do carry a sword. Still your idea is that they are JUOCs in disguise?
You don't shag much, do you?
 
#19
When I said "swords", I meant swords, not bayonets.Probably, you have not watched the photo I sent at the start of this thread, which shows two cadets carrying a sword; one has plain shoulder straps, which I believe classify him as an OCdt; the other has silver-bordered straps,which should classify him as a JUOC (SUOCs wearing same straps with RMAS badge superimposed). Maybe they have not been taught sword drill, but they do carry a sword. Still your idea is that they are JUOCs in disguise?
Kindly ask the QM for a replacement sense of humour; yours would appear to have failed.
 
#20
I suspect this is a photo of a commissioning parade that took place before the change of swords to rifles for Senior Division (2008?)


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I don't know the date, but I have flickr streams of photos of after-2008 parades which show the same kind of question. Thank you for your interest.
 

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