Offending the god botherers

Was it down the back of the Papal sofa, by chance?

I visited St Paul's Basilica in 2007....and the Palace of Versailles a year later....they both brought out previously hidden Leveller sentiments in me..

' "Our case is to be considered thus, that we have been under slavery.

That's acknowledged by all. Our very laws were made by our Conquerors... We are now engaged for our freedom.

That's the end of Parliament, to legislate according to the just ends of government, not simply to maintain what is already established.

Every person in England hath as clear a right to elect his Representative as the greatest person in England. I conceive that's the undeniable maxim of government: that all government is in the free consent of the people.
"

(3) John Lilburne, Leveller pamphlet (March, 1647)

(4) John Lilburne, The Free Man's Freedom Vindicated (1647)
There are the odd one or two people who've been somewhat confused by finding there is an egalitarian anarchist lurking under my Adolf Atilla McGhengis persona. Having been drug up in a reasonable CofE environment, I too was pretty much inclined towards Lilburne's espoused words. There are ways to maintain temporal authority yet still maintain 'natural' equality (Warrant Officers excepted) and I found it to be a good approach for getting the best out of people, even the ones who normally didn't normally contribute much.
 
*All right JC and his disciples were also Jews.
JC was only half Jewish (on the important side, his mothers). As every Englishman knows, his Father was CofE.

OK even Catholics are human, just would'nt send my son to a catholic kindergarten.
In my previous Surrey abode, people moved house to get into the local Catholic Primary school's because of its educational reputation.
 
Newman was a fekin perv...In 2008 an attempt was made to dig up his body for purposes of beatification, it emerged that he had not been buried alone, but with a close friend, Ambrose St. John. Media excitement about Newman's sexual proclivities ensued - Peter Tatchell went on Newsnight to announce that he had read letters from Newman referring to St John as "my first and my last". A miracle working saint of the usual kind!
 
JC was only half Jewish (on the important side, his mothers). As every Englishman knows, his Father was CofE.


In my previous Surrey abode, people moved house to get into the local Catholic Primary school's because of its educational reputation.
I beg to differ. Experts reckon His father was most likely Catholic.

Newman was a fekin perv...In 2008 an attempt was made to dig up his body for purposes of beatification, it emerged that he had not been buried alone, but with a close friend, Ambrose St. John. Media excitement about Newman's sexual proclivities ensued - Peter Tatchell went on Newsnight to announce that he had read letters from Newman referring to St John as "my first and my last". A miracle working saint of the usual kind!
Seems like someone's projecting their gayness onto the Cardinal, and reading things that aren't there. What's so gay about calling a friend 'my first and last'?
 

BlackDyke

War Hero
Newman was a fekin perv...In 2008 an attempt was made to dig up his body for purposes of beatification, it emerged that he had not been buried alone, but with a close friend, Ambrose St. John. Media excitement about Newman's sexual proclivities ensued - Peter Tatchell went on Newsnight to announce that he had read letters from Newman referring to St John as "my first and my last". A miracle working saint of the usual kind!
Proof?

Oh of course you haven't got any just like the Holocaust Denial shit that you preach.
 
Newman was a fekin perv...In 2008 an attempt was made to dig up his body for purposes of beatification, it emerged that he had not been buried alone, but with a close friend, Ambrose St. John. Media excitement about Newman's sexual proclivities ensued - Peter Tatchell went on Newsnight to announce that he had read letters from Newman referring to St John as "my first and my last". A miracle working saint of the usual kind!
As usual, a little bit more reading of context might point to other interpretations.

Cardinal Newman - Gayer or not?

David Hilliard characterises Geoffrey Faber's description of Newman, in his 1933 book Oxford Apostles, as a "portrait of Newman as a sublimated homosexual (though the word itself was not used)".[145] On Newman's relations with Hurrell Froude, Faber wrote: "Of all his friends Froude filled the deepest place in his heart, and I'm not the first to point out that his occasional notions of marrying definitely ceased with the beginning of his real intimacy with Froude".[146] However, while Faber's theory has had considerable popular influence, scholars of the Oxford Movement tend either to dismiss it entirely or to view it with great scepticism,[147] with even scholars specifically concerned with same-sex desire hesitating to endorse it.[148]

Ellis Hanson, for instance, writes that Newman and Froude clearly "presented a challenge to Victorian gender norms", but "Faber's reading of Newman's sexlessness[149] and Hurrell Froude's guilt[150] as evidence of homosexuality" seems "strained".[151] When John Campbell Shairp combines masculine and feminine imagery in his highly poetic description of Newman's preaching style at Oxford in the early 1840s, Frederick S. Roden is put in mind of "the late Victorian definition of a male invert, the homosexual: his (Newman's) homiletics suggest a woman's soul in a man's body".[152] Roden, however, does not argue that Newman was homosexual, seeing him rather—particularly in his professed celibacy[153]—as a "cultural dissident" or "queer". Roden uses the term "queer" in a very general sense "to include any dissonant behaviours, discourses or claimed identities" in relation to Victorian norms.[154] In this sense, "Victorian Roman and Anglo-Catholicism were culturally queer".[155] In Newman's case, Roden writes, "homoaffectivity" (found in heterosexuals and homosexuals alike)[156] "is contained in friendships, in relationships that are not overtly sexual".[157]

In a September 2010 television documentary, The Trouble with the Pope,[158] Peter Tatchell discussed Newman's underlying sexuality, citing his close friendship with Ambrose St John and entries in Newman's diaries describing their intense love for each other.[159][160][161] Alan Bray, however, in his 2003 book The Friend,[162] saw the bond between the two men as "entirely spiritual",[163] noting that Newman, when speaking of St John, echoes the language of John's gospel.[143] Shortly after St John's death, Bray adds, Newman recorded "a conversation between them before St John lost his speech in those final days. He expressed his hope, Newman wrote, that during his whole priestly life he had not committed one mortal sin. For men of their time and culture that statement is definitive. ... Newman's burial with Ambrose St John cannot be detached from his understanding of the place of friendship in Christian belief or its long history". Bray cites numerous examples of friends being buried together.[163] Newman's burial with St John was not unusual at the time and did not draw contemporary comment.[164]

David Hilliard writes that relationships such as Newman's with Froude and St John "were not regarded by contemporaries as unnatural. ... Nor is it possible, on the basis of passionate words uttered by mid-Victorians, to make a clear distinction between male affection and homosexual feeling. Theirs was a generation prepared to accept romantic friendships between men simply as friendships without sexual significance. Only with the emergence in the late nineteenth century of the doctrine of the stiff upper lip and the concept of homosexuality as an identifiable condition, did open expressions of love between men become suspect and regarded in a new light as morally undesirable".[165] Men born in the first decades of the nineteenth century had a capacity, which did not survive into later generations, for intense male friendships. The friendship of Alfred Tennyson and Arthur Hallam, immortalised in In Memoriam A.H.H., is a famous example. Less well-known is that of Charles Kingsley and his closest friend at Cambridge, Charles Mansfield.[166]

When Ian Ker reissued his biography of Newman in 2009, he added an afterword[167] in which he put forward evidence that Newman was a heterosexual. He cited journal entries from December 1816 in which the 15-year-old Newman prayed to be preserved from the temptations awaiting him when he returned from boarding school and met girls at Christmas dances and parties.[168] As an adult, Newman wrote about the deep pain of the "sacrifice" of the life of celibacy. Ker comments: "The only 'sacrifice' that he could possibly be referring to was that of marriage. And he readily acknowledges that from time to time he continued to feel the natural attraction for marriage that any heterosexual man would."[169] In 1833, Newman wrote that, despite having "willingly" accepted the call to celibacy, he felt "not the less ... the need" of "the sort of interest [sympathy] which a wife takes and none but she—it is a woman's interest".[170][171]
Still, in these enlightened times, the odd bit of shirt-lifting is no longer regarded by society as a perversion, as long as it doesn't involve choir boys.

OTOH, you seem awfully keen to hunt down such 'perversions' and point the finger. Your name's not Wes Goodman, by any chance, is it?

Wes Goodman - Totally Straight Bloke, Yessirree ...
 
Everyone knows Joseph was CofE cos god was an Englishman. He'd never let the Catholics get their saints and popery on the glory cos they think the Pope is more important than the Queen. That would make them more likely to side with other Catholic countries such as... *spit* the French!
 
We had quite fun evenings. We'd pin up a few paintings, Breughel and the like showing the damned descending into the eternal flames, and then put bowls full of Jelly Babies around the room. Not the normal ones but those ones filled with blackcurrant juice that runs down your face when you bite them in half - do you know the ones I mean? Then we'd put on the BBC Sound Effects records of the screams of the anguished, don devil suits, turn on the flickering red lights, and enact a morality play about the fate of Trick-or-Treaters come Judgement Day. Great fun!

They thought it was much better than having to check for rat poison and broken glass in sweets garnered from total strangers. Still, if you're willing to place your child's life in the hands of psychopaths, axe murderers, extinction rebels, and deranged little old ladies with too many cats, who am I to judge?

Not a problem. Were quite liberal in my Church. Why I'd probably bring a few of the congregation round to join in your festivities. "Go ahead, brothers and sisters,", I'd say, "Feel free to join in with the poor benighted heathens. Kill them all. The Lord will know his own!



Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk

Define "too many cats".
 
Religion perverts minds and attracts perverts. Jimmy Savile had a Papal knighthood.
 
Religion perverts minds and attracts perverts. Jimmy Savile had a Papal knighthood.
All religious people are like Jimmy Savile, aren't they, Higgsy? Last I checked, it was a secular, left-leaning institutions that were complicit in what he allegedly got away with. That's the elephant in the room.
 
Why did the sun never set on the British Empire?

Because God knows you can't trust an Englishman in the dark.
 

New Posts

Latest Threads

Top