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Offending the god botherers

Orthodox Judaism forbades trying to encourage anyone to become Jewish and strongly tries to discourage any non Jew who becomes interested in converting.
There's a fairly well known jewish lawyer in Germany called Michael Friedmann, he did have his own TV programme and was a leading member of the jewish community here. 2004 he married Bärbel Schäfer, who converted to judaism.
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
Put simply, Judaism is an ethno-religion - the religion of a specific ethnic group - the Jews, and limited to them. A Jew is anyone born to a Jewish mother.
Orthodox Judaism forbades trying to encourage anyone to become Jewish and strongly tries to discourage any non Jew who becomes interested in converting.

Regarding numbers - orthodox Jews take the Biblical command "Be fruitful and multiply" literally - the rest of us are just randy sods. Mind you, just a few decades ago, the Germans reduced our numbers by no less than six million.

Correct about the Muslims btw - they regard him and a fair few others as prophets (not THE prophet).

I understand Mary, the mother of Jesus, is the only woman to be named in the Quran.
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
1) Maryam - (Mary) ...
3) Umm-e-Musa (The mother of Hazrat Musa (AS)) ...
4) Bilquis (Queen of Sheeba) ...
5) Wife of Hazrat Lutt (AS) and Wife of Hazrat Nuhh (AS)

Yes. I know.

It's in the introductory paragraph.
 
There's a fairly well known jewish lawyer in Germany called Michael Friedmann, he did have his own TV programme and was a leading member of the jewish community here. 2004 he married Bärbel Schäfer, who converted to judaism.

I said it is discouraged, it isn't expressly forbidden. There are a few converts and I know some personally.
Note I specified orthodox Judaism.
In the 21st century Jews formed movements to try to offer Jews the possibility of identifying with the Jewish religion/identity without having to follow Jewish law. Since Jewish laws can be quite a burden they became quite successful, notably Reform Judaism. Reform Judaism doesn't seem to think converting people is much of an issue, just as it doesn't think Jewish laws are much of an issue. As a result there are quite a few people converted by the Reform movement who consider themselves to be Jewish, even though they aren't really - not according to formal Jewish law anyway.
 
I said it is discouraged, it isn't expressly forbidden. There are a few converts and I know some personally.
Note I specified orthodox Judaism.
Previously noted. I have no idea which sort of Jew Friedmann is, just that he was once the chairman or president of the Zentralrat der Juden in Deutschland (President of the central council of german Jews).
Then came the rather unfortunate incident involving cocain and ladies of the horizontal persuasion.
He obviously failed to observe the 11th commandment.
 
Previously noted. I have no idea which sort of Jew Friedmann is, just that he was once the chairman or president of the Zentralrat der Juden in Deutschland (President of the central council of german Jews).
Then came the rather unfortunate incident involving cocain and ladies of the horizontal persuasion.
He obviously failed to observe the 11th commandment.

Yes Haha I read that when I looked him up after reading your post. Horizontal AND of Eastern European origin it seems.
Regarding your mention of his marriage - on the web it states that it was at a "modern orthodox" synagogue in NYC, which would appear to indicate her conversion was orthodox - strange.
 
Correct about the Muslims btw - they regard him and a fair few others as prophets (not THE prophet).

Correct.

I was christened a Prod in St Johns church, Isleworth. My father went abroad and I went to live in Ireland with my mother for a year. I was immediately baptised as a Catlick. When I came back to England it was back to St Johns for a sprinkling of Prod water. (This was all grandparents induced - my parents couldn't GAF about religion).

I reckon I had enough of religion whilst I was still shitting my nappy.

When I went to work in KSA in 1973 I had to show the embassy a copy of my baptismal certificate (to prove I wasn't Jewish). Funnily enough I didn't have it to hand. I was going to ask if I could just whip my knob out for a quick check but thought better of it.

I had to get a letter from the vicar of St Johns confirming my christening on such and such date. I was also told that I would need a new passport if mine had any Israeli stamps in it (it didn't). This was such a fuss for travelers that Israel started issuing paper slips which could be inserted rather than indelible stamps.

Nothing I ever saw in the shambolic, dysfunctional, repressive and downright unpleasant Arab world ever convinced me they were an existential threat to Israel. Being fair, I never actually encountered any malice toward Israel or it's people from the general population - I think you are the external bogeyman threat they need to repress their own populace.
 
Not sure if that is stated anywhere in the Bible, it is however a common assumption, not that that constitutes proof.
I have heard that even the Muzzies accept that JC existed and recognise him as a minor prophet.
It still surprises me that Christianity has just about conquered the world whereas as Judaism, which is a lot older, has stagnated at around 14 million.
Why should one brand of sky fairy worship be so much more widespread than another to which it is related?
Just ask yourself, which one cuts the end of your willy off?
 
As for the literal omissions between the synoptic gospels, I've already covered that. The differences in descriptive detail do not challenge the account and that is because when something happened that was common in the culture, nothing was said about it. We write the same way today, leaving out any details that everyone knows by custom and culture. If we read in the newspaper that a thief drove down the road for miles while being chased by police, we do not think, “Drove? What is ‘drove?’ I wonder how he got down the road all that distance?” We all know what “drove down the road” means, so we exclude the details when we write about it. Similarly, if I tell someone, “I called Dan and talked with him,” it is clear from our culture that I called on a telephone, even though I do not say it.

What you really mean here is that the differences do not challenge the account for you. The off-at-a-tangent ifs and buts discussion that you offer in support of your assertion simply isn't relevant to the issue - to be honest it feels more like a verbal smokescreen or attempt to divert attention away from the simple question.
I realise that nobody likes it when truth gets in the way of agenda, the question is what is more important? Protecting the foundations of religious beliefs from being undermined or seeking objective truth that is free from any conscious agenda?
 
I realise that nobody likes it when truth gets in the way of agenda, the question is what is more important? Protecting the foundations of religious beliefs from being undermined or seeking objective truth that is free from any conscious agenda?
Answers that may not be questioned and questions that may not be answered.
Apart from which a quick injection of truth eg immaculate conception and the consequences would bring an entire house of cards tumbling down.
I have visions of the Pope plus the entire Vatican staff standing outside the Job Centre (or whatever it is called now ) to sign on the dole. Plus an estate agents sign at the Vatican entrance "For sale or rent, one previous owner/occupant".

Note to myself, drlligaf you are an evil sod.
 
Nothing I ever saw in the shambolic, dysfunctional, repressive and downright unpleasant Arab world ever convinced me they were an existential threat to Israel. Being fair, I never actually encountered any malice toward Israel or it's people from the general population - I think you are the external bogeyman threat they need to repress their own populace.

On a personal level, my personal interractions with Arabs in Israel (over 20% of Israeli citizens are Arabs), Jordan, Egypt and Lebanon also bear this out. I also have quite a few friends and acquaintances in Iran who even quite like Israel - yet if you listen to the Iranian regime - Israel is the little satan that has to be destroyed.

Whether or not they are an existential threat nowadays has to be viewed in the light of history - the existential threat they actively embodied was very real when it was just attacking Jews during the British Mandate period or when Israel was a new, tiny and very challenged state. The reason they aren't an existential threat now is because instead of letting them destroy it, Israel made itself strong enough to make it not worth their while.
 
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Are you telling me the baby jeezus was a 4x2?

Did he convert?
Too soon...far too soon....
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Answers that may not be questioned and questions that may not be answered.
Apart from which a quick injection of truth eg immaculate conception and the consequences would bring an entire house of cards tumbling down.
I have visions of the Pope plus the entire Vatican staff standing outside the Job Centre (or whatever it is called now ) to sign on the dole. Plus an estate agents sign at the Vatican entrance "For sale or rent, one previous owner/occupant".

Note to myself, drlligaf you are an evil sod.

It is no different with the Jewish religion as far as the biblical beliefs it is based on go. It is one giant house of cards which the believers - those who have invested themselves in the religion - dare not touch.
Better the comfort of the structure that comes with built in idolatry and mythology than facing life without it.
At least that's how it seems to the misguided victims of self-imprisonment on the inside.

For some reason the people who conceived Christianity made sure to insert hateful and fear-inspiring threats of doom to anyone who doesn't accept Jesus. One can only hope that when humanity becomes more enlightened, the crimes of these terrorists of the psyche will be seen for what they are.
 
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It is no different with the Jewish religion as far as the biblical beliefs it is based on go. It is one giant house of cards which the believers - those who have invested themselves in the religion - dare not touch.
Better the comfort of the structure that comes with built in idolatry and mythology than facing life without it.
At least that's how it seems to the misguided prisoners on the inside.
As an outsider looking in, I would say that the jewish house of cards is a bit more solid, if only because it is lacking the New Testament fairy tale.
 

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