Obtaining an FAC

[jack04040]

Gent's,

Just looking for a little bit of advice, I currently shoot quite regularly with a shotgun and hold a shot gun certificate, now whilst this is all well and good for Pheasants ,pigeons, duck etc. I've been looking into acquiring a .22 LR for zapping rabbits whilst lamping. Also I'm quite keen to try my hand at a bit of deer stalking eventually (obviously with something considerably larger than a .22). However I'm led to believe that as I don't own a sizeable chunk of land then my Firearms certificate application will be turned down, also will I have to get another gunsafe put in the house seperate from the shotguns?. Do any of you have any experience with this sort of thing?
Thanks in advance

 

[fingers_1661]

deleted

 

[fingers_1661]

I've been out for a while but I believe the army still has a Clay Pigeon Shooting assn (ACPSA) & something similar for deerstalking, furthermore you should consider applying for a pottering licence on any obscure MOD land in your facinity.

(I'm assuming you're serving or have contact with MOD)

 

[fingers_1661]

deleted

(net probs this end!)

 

[jack04040]

Am a STAB at the moment, but will be going regular post university. Thanks for the info, will see what I can find out. Any more ideas on actually getting the FAC would be much appreciated.

 

[Barrack Room Lawyer]

I dont think you need to actually "own" any land, you just need permission to shoot on some land, and a good reason for owning you .22lr, phone your local firearms cert officer, his number should be listed on your local police forces website, also ask Ugly who frequents these boards, he will put you right.

 

[FiveAlpha]

Gent's,

Just looking for a little bit of advice, I currently shoot quite regularly with a shotgun and hold a shot gun certificate, now whilst this is all well and good for Pheasants ,pigeons, duck etc. I've been looking into acquiring a .22 LR for zapping rabbits whilst lamping. Also I'm quite keen to try my hand at a bit of deer stalking eventually (obviously with something considerably larger than a .22). However I'm led to believe that as I don't own a sizeable chunk of land then my Firearms certificate application will be turned down, also will I have to get another gunsafe put in the house seperate from the shotguns?. Do any of you have any experience with this sort of thing?
Thanks in advance

Jack I'm a holder of both SGC and FAC. You could try joining a club to enable you to aquire an FAC but trying to get one for vermin shooting without having written permission from a landowner will be difficult if not impossible. Try knocking on farmers doors, asking for permission to use shottie then graduate onto asking for permission with .22 or .17. If landowner has a problem with foxes then BINGO ask for permision for centrefire .243 or similar.

Phoning you local FEO may help or register with an online forum such as Pigeon Watch Forums.

You don't need to have seperate cabinets for rifles - use your existing cabinet.

If need be mate, send me a PM.

 

[fingers_1661]

trying to get one for vermin shooting without having written permission from a landowner will be difficult if not impossible. Try knocking on farmers doors, asking for permission to use shottie then graduate onto asking for permission with .22 or .17. If landowner has a problem with foxes then BINGO ask for permision for centrefire .243 or similar.

I'm built like a brick shithouse & look like a bankrobber. I circumvented the problem of frightening farmers by knocking on their doors in uniform (with 100% success!)

 

[jack04040]

Thanks very much for all the advice, getting permission shouldn't be a problem as the local farmer is muckers with my old man.

Ref the gunsafe, my father keeps his gun in with my 2 in the same safe, will he need to obtain an FAC too, or would it be simpler for me to just get my own safe?

Thanks in advance

 

[Gravelbelly]

Ref the gunsafe, my father keeps his gun in with my 2 in the same safe, will he need to obtain an FAC too, or would it be simpler for me to just get my own safe?

Much simpler to get your own safe (the alternative is for your father to get a FAC).

Where forces vary is their attitude to the number of rifles on your ticket. My wife and I each have two 0.22 rifles; all of our rifles are on both of our FACs, so we don't need separate safes, we can carry each others rifles, etc, etc. (Our local force is spot-on with regards to FACs). However, a neighbouring force got terribly sniffy about such things, and some friends in exactly the same situation weren't allowed to have each others rifles on their FACs, and had to subdivide their safe.

 

[FiveAlpha]

Does your father hold a SGC? If not then technically he's breaking the law. You could put his shotguns on your certificate so it's all above board. He can still use and fire a shotgun as long as he's accompanied by you. This option however does not apply with an FAC. If he doesn't hold an FAC then he doesn't shoot - unless starting out in a registered club.

 

[jack04040]

yeah he has a SGC, and all is above board and checked out by local plod. He's just not so keen on going through the hassle of getting an FAC as he doesn't really have any interest in rifle shooting. Will just go down the separate cabinet route then. Thanks for the advice everyone is much appreciated and if anyone else has any other knowledge about the process then it would be much appreciated!

 

[303SMLE]

Reading between the lines, if you are shooting Pheasants, Pigeon and Duck with a Shotgun, and want a .22 for rabbits, presumably you already have access to land?

All you need is written permission to use a .22 there, and then toddle to the Police Station for an FAC Application. It is broadly the same as for SGC, however, you will need to specify what type of rifles to wish to acquire, and for what reason, e.g.

.22 Semi auto (or bolt action) for vermin control on xxx (named land)

Remember, if you want a moderator, you will need to ask for that as well, as its a licenceable item.

You will also have to specify how much ammo you need to buy and hold. .22 ammo is not expensive, and think about how convenient it is for you to get to a gunshop to buy some, and how much you will use. I have buy 1000 and hold 1200. (It can be cheaper to buy it in 500 or 1000 round blocks, but most FEOs won't accept this as a valid reason) You will also need to specify that you want expanding ammo for vermin.

Your ammo, unlike shotgun ammo, will need to be kept in a seperate safe. The likes of B&Q do small valuables safe's for between £20-£50. Get the biggest you can afford, as if you end up with several different rifles you might have to store a fair bit of ammo.

You can keep the rifle(s) in your shotgun safe, provided you do not share it with anyone else (e.g. your dad) if you do, you might need another safe for your rifles, or at least to secure your rifles within the safe so only you can take them out, with a cable lock, for example.

Deer stalking is a different ball game, and your route in depends, to a great extent, how flush you are and where you live.

If the land you shoot on already has Deer present, then obtain permission to stalk from the landowner. You will then need to learn to stalk. The most effective way of doing this is to go stalking with a proffessional. This does not have to be expensive; look in the back of Sporting Rifle Magazine for loads of adverts. Obviously, try to pick someone local to you who offers stalking on the same species as are present on your land.

You can also do your DSC 1 exam/course, which can help you secure land etc. However, it is a purely theoretical course, and you will probably learn more with a stalker in the field than in a classroom. The Police may try to insist you do DSC 1 before they let you have a stalking rifle, they tried with me. This isn't strictly legal, and if you are a member of BASC they can help. I've successfuly fought it, so pm me if you want advice on it.

If you do not have deer on your land, and (for the foreseeable future at least) only intend to stalk on a 'pay-per-day' basis, then its easier. Simply book a stalk for next Autumn/winter, and ask for a confirmatory letter for the Police. Companies will be quite used to this. Fill in your application asking for a suitable stalking rifle, for shooting Deer, and specify as a paying client, rather than on farm x or y.

If Tunbridge Wells is within your orbit, I can pm you the contact details of some excellent stalking there with a very friendly pro.

Defence Deer Management is not open to Territorials, but is to Regulars. I am in the same situation as you and have already enquired. PM me for further details.

 

[303SMLE]

In addition to what I said about Ammo requirements, it is not uncommon for the Police to halve what you ask for on principle. Therefore, if you think you need buy 500 hold 600, for example, ask for 1000/1200.

Also, land clearance, the land will need to be passed as 'suitable' for the calibre you intend to use. You will need to demonstrate you know how to shoot a rifle safely, (not weapons handling strictly) for example, every shot you take must have a solid backstop. Hedges, trees and the like do not count as back stops! Obviously, this means that on occasion you have to pass up shots, its a pain, but not as big a pain as winging a rifle bullet over the skyline and through someones window.

Be aware, .22 is very prone to ricochets, so you actually have to be extra vigilant about backstops and ensuring the bullet doesn't hit the ground at a shallow angle.

 

[jack04040]

303 thanks very much for all those gems, primarily I was wanting to get the FAC for a .22, but deer stalking is something I've always been interested in doing, but looks like it might be easier to wait until I've managed to square away a .22, not presently flush enough to go down the stalking route it would seem but maybe something to aim for in the not to distant future.

Unfortunately am split between scotland and south west england for the next couple of years as i try to finish my education, so tunbridge wells is a bit outside my remit but thanks very much for the offer!

 

[ugly]

Civil Shot lives up in Cheshire may be able to help re shooting north of the border. I'm a bit off district down in Sussex but always willing to help. Clubs can be ok but getting sporting use is the best as eventually you get an open cert after 3 years and can use anywhere you have permission without clearing each plot of land with plod in advance.
Joning a stalking syndicate can help and my boss here runs a sporting agency with land in Scotland. PM me and I'll send you his details for land leasing and just sporting rights. He is well versed with dealing with plod and will smooth out most paths!

 

[jack04040]

Cheers ugly, think i will concentrate on getting a .22 for now and then maybe switch across to something larger later on. Say for example I got permission to control foxes on said land would I be able to put in a request for a .243, if granted would I be limited to using this on foxes or could I for example use it on occasional stalking days, or is it limited in its use by terms on my license?

 

[303SMLE]

No trouble at all.

Funnily enough, I'm from Exeter originally.

Shooting can be an expensive game, but it doesn't have to be. Good second hand .22's can be picked up for less than a decent airgun.

As you're in Exeter I'd suggest you get your arse down the Sportsmans and have a gander at the gear. I haven't been in the new store but when they were at Paignton I found them knowledgeable and helpful.

If you do consider a Centrefire rifle for foxing, have a look at the new Howa Hogues, I'm the only person i know who's bought one so far, but everyone who's seen it has been impressed; it was only £610 moderated and with (albeit crappy, but useable) scope and mounts, and it shoots MOA.

Got mine from UK Custom shop in Bromley.

 

[303SMLE]

Cheers ugly, think i will concentrate on getting a .22 for now and then maybe switch across to something larger later on. Say for example I got permission to control foxes on said land would I be able to put in a request for a .243, if granted would I be limited to using this on foxes or could I for example use it on occasional stalking days, or is it limited in its use by terms on my license?

Its limited, but there is no reason why you couldn't have permission for Deer and Fox, I do. When you apply, you can either:

a) Ask for a .243 for fox and explain that you wish to have a .243 so you can vary it for stalking use later on.

b)Book a stalk as I outlined and use that as the basis for having a deer and fox condition.

If you have a stalking (or foxing) condition, you do not have to use it terribly frequently to keep it. Plenty of "stalkers" only shoot once or twice a year under the strict supervision of a ghillie.

My FAC reads:

The .243 Rifle and The .243 Sound Moderator and .243 Ammunition shall be used for shooting DEER & FOX and for zeroing on ranges, on land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot.

(I know the language and punctuation is odd, but thats as its written.)

 

[ugly]

Pretty much on the nail. Plod especially if you live in or near a town may try and get you to book a DSC course, whilst there is nothing wrong wwith the course it gives you a certificate with no practical experience. Tell plod that you are booking a stalk and a training course to ensure you are safe and get experience. A DSC1 gnerally has a ratio of instructors to students of up to 1 to 10 and have been known to be bigger. Our courses are never over 1 to 4 and the one I'm running here in sussex next month is 1 to 2. I go over to Winchester to assist occaisionally to ensure the ratio is lowered.
Our courses get you generally 1 or 2 live stalks after a day split between classroom and range. The next day starts with a stalk, a gralloch hopefully, breakfast and some woodland training before a lunchtime Q&A followed by a 30 to 40 question test. We tailor our courses to suit the individual, if you want to know all about highland stalking and scottish law then we concentrate on that and vica versa for lowland English/welsh stalking.
Whatever happens dont get put off by Plod and dont worry about going regular, with BAOR gradually closing there will be lots of chances to keep stalking in the UK.