Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by MrPVRd, Mar 11, 2007.
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My opinion - wounded soldiers should not be treated on the NHS and should be treated in private military hospitals funded wholly by the MoD.
Agreed, we should - in a ideal world - have private MoD hospitals for our wounded. But the logistics are horrific. How would we maintain sufficient hospital facilities, with appropriate staffing, during the quiet times, so as to sure we have the necessary hospital capability when we are at war?
On the premise that we all want the very best surgeons, doctors and nurses for our wounded, we have to go where they are, and that - for all its manifold shortcomings - simply means the NHS.
It's interesting to see this Observer article in the wider context - especially the USA, where it is becoming a national disgrace of very significant political dimensions. See : http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/03/online_reedarchive_070302/
Now't personal Caubeen, I know it costs money, lots of it and yes the logistics will be terrible but All UK Governments have the RIGHT to order TOM into action where he risks his life and limbs.
By such authority, All UK governments have a DUTY to see that the wounded receive above normal care and treatment on their return.
I read the articles and letters above with a growing sense of immense anger. I served 11 years and I have a brother still serving. If either of us had been injured on one of the many operational tours that we undertook on the orders of our "Dear Leader" I would have expected prompt and excellent medical attention in order to return to full health and operational effectiveness.
The level of care described above falls below that which I receive when I sprain my ankle in southern Poland or eastern Ukraine.
It is disgusting and a true betrayal of the covenant that exists between soldier and State. Will anyone be sacked? Will anyone be disciplined? Will anyone from the NHS even give a damn? I thank God that I am now out of the mob and have private health insurance. For most young people (under the age of 35) great health cover is available for 2,500-3,500 GBP per annum. Maybe something to spend your "tax rebate" on? (that or club together and hire an assasin to slot the lying cnut BLiar).
On the subject of military hospitals: the UK should have between 8-15 of the buggers. What to do in times of peace? Easy: accept dirty chav cnuts and civvies. As the pressure of war increases, more and more wards become pure military, and then when one hospital is 100% full then the next starts off-loading oxygen thieves and starts taking service personnel. That way the staff of all the hospitals stay current in their skills, and the NHS is protected from such fcuk-ups that is Selly Oak.
The MoD is currently struggling to feed troops deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq. gov.uk spends more feeding prison inmates than it does feeding either service personnel or school children. Given that fact, what do you think are the chances that a shiny new military hospital will be built?
Regarding comments about the treatment of patients - welcome to the NHS. Complaining to hospital's management serves no purpose. The response will be a standard letter stating that the hospital trust is 'committed to addressing the issues'raised by the Coopers and pointing out that the NHS is an equal opportunities employer. In fact, Jamie Cooper's parents should be careful about what they put in writing. If they complain too much they may find themselves or their son accused of racism.
The real power in hospitals is held by consultant grade doctors who are legally responsible for patient care. While hospital management are held in contempt by many doctors and nurses, consultants can and do put the fear of god into their subordinates. In my experience, bringing subtle pressure to bear on a patient's consultant often achieves the best results. Document absolutelty everything that is done to the patient, including regular observations of temperature and blood pressure. It's a pain in the neck to do this but it can mean the difference between life and death. Relentlessly exploit every mistake. Drop hints about going to the General Medical Council. That should ensure that your patient is near the top of the medical staffs' list of priorities.
At a more practical level,there is much that can be done to improve the chances of NHS patients. Buy a box of individual antiseptic wipes to clean the bedside table and nearby surfaces. Wash hands on arrival at the ward - don't just use alcohol gel. Take photos of any visibly obvious dirt and ensure that you're seen doing this. Buying small, regular gifts for the ward staff (e.g. boxes of chocolates, expensive biscuits, bottles of wine) can yield impressive results. Colostomy bag full? Don't ask for it to be emptied - detach it and leave it leaking all over the documents at the nurse's station. It won't fill up again.
The Coopers should understand that their son's life is in greater jeapordy now than it was when he was fighting in Iraq.
ARGHHHH im speachless with rage
Might be a bit of an embarresment, but what about a few volunteers fromthe Legion going in cleaning hte wards and sitting by the wounded....
If we must use NHS hospitals like this we need our own part, or failing that, surge QARANCs in to the ward to make sure there are more than enough staff, the civies might even want to be in a mixed ward then (if they know there will be some chance of descent service).
Likewise letting PTSD suffering servicemen and women in to the community to disappear is insane. They need proper care and attention. If neccesary, keep them in the forces.
Somehow the comparison of the luxeries handed to a peado in prison compared to the treatment for someone who has been mentally damaged, whilst serving the country on the orders of the government, some how makes me wince.
I really can't stress how good Selly Oaks doctors are for trauma patients, we send our really smashed up patients there by helicopter. Where I work the South African doctors are very experienced in trauma patients and rate them highly.
I would suggest that the MOD build their own block on site (with MOD security) in Selly Oak staffed by forces nurses and doctors. Then the forces can use the NHS facilities and specialists while "looking after their own" at the same time.
This should be funded entirely by the government NOW.
I visit the various hospitals in Birmingham and especially Selly Oak on a monthly basis and do come across some of our troops who could have been dealt with better. Iâm certainly no apologist for the Chain of Command but suggest that some of the facts of this issue have been clouded by interest politics.
The level of specialist surgical treatment available at Selly Oaks, QE et al is beyond that which was ever available at military hospitals with some of the worldâs finest consultants at hand. I also meet extraordinarily dedicated military medical and DMWS staff working very long hours to try and meet the needs of their patients. Unfortunately the uniformed/DMWS staff can do little to influence the Primary Care Trust and are understaffed due to people being pulled away for Herrick and Telic.
IMHO the problem is that which is prevalent across the NHS â mismanagement.
If we sort out our National Health Service then it would be to the benefit of all and, I believe that, every citizen desires the right to competent health care. Isnât that all part and parcel of the liberal democracy we all swore to protect?
However, whilst even one case of substandard care or MRSA is too many, it seems that many politicians and reporters are making unnecessary mileage out of this - exploiting the sacrifice our troops have made for their own grubby ends.
The NHS already makes use of private hospitals in certain geographical areas and medical conditions. The hospitals are set up with the sort of proper accommodation and equipment we are looking for for our military forces. I understand they get these facilities at a reduced rate which is almost the same cost as if treatment were given in a NHS butchery. I have experienced both good and bad at NHS hands but only good at BUPA etc.
There is no need to establish individual quasi-BMH establishments.
As for politicians exploiting the situation - when and where was it any different? I'd sell my soul to the Devil if it got injured servicemen the treatment they deserve.
What do you think needs to be done to resolve this problem?
Private medicine is not well developed within the UK. Many private hospitals are little more than hotels with attached operating theatres.
They are not generally able to treat people who are very ill. For example, I don't know of any private hospitals outside London that have an intensive care unit or an A&E department.
I believe many of them don't even have a doctor on site at night. If you need urgent drug treatment, the staff will call an ambulance to take you to emergency ward MRSA down at your local NHS hospital.
I don't think you can rely on BUPA to plug the gaps in the NHS on behalf of the armed forces. As eveyuk said, the only solution is to make adequate provision for injured service personnel within the NHS.
Are bunk beds still in use at Selly Oak?
Whichever way you look at this it is staggeringly inept that here we are at the beginning of the spring offensive in Afghanistan, with thousands of troops committed to the campaign and our last military hospital is about to close.
So much for leadership. Our troops are being sold out by their own leaders and the cnuts in Govt.
This is the greatest disgrace visited upon the current government of this nation.
Notwithstanding this government's political reasons for engaging in war or warlike operations, their failure to provide the best medical care and consideration for injured servicemen and women is shameful.
I was recently obliged to visit an elderly neighbour in hospital nearby. The hospital is a famous teaching hospital.
Never having been in a civilian hospital before, I could barely believe my eyes - nor my ears - nor my nose, at the sights, sounds and smells I encountered. Filth was everywhere (I pointed out examples to other people who can verify this); the noise was relentless and the old man - an old soldier incidentally - said that the screams and moans throughout the night prevented sleep and were distressing. (This from a man who fought all the way down the Malay peninsula and spent three and half years as a PoW of the Japanese). As a direct result of my visits I have now joined a private health insurance scheme - at a price I really cannot afford.
Just listening to an MP on the wireless saying " The inference of the article is: 'The NHS is not good enough for our boys' ". This is true - it is not and it is not good enough for the population of this country.
Servicemen need and deserve to be treated medically in their own dedicated, militarily run, hospitals - not 'bear-gardens' such as the establishment I had the misfortune to visit and my neighbour to be treated in - he died!
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