Observations of civvy st from an ex perspective

#1
Do you find yourself wanting to throttle some shite because he "takes offense" for something you say that reflects an attitude that you had to deal with daily?
I upset all my civvy counterparts with my black humour jokes - I dont give a shit..They WILL hear them. I hate office politics and my straight-speaking upsets the eco-system, they would prefer being spoke to behind their backs it would seem..

What riles you about civvy strasse??
 
#2
Oh to many hates of civvies to mention here.
"mangers" dont have a fooking clue about man management or logistics. Just capable of crawling up some one elses arse to get the "manager" job and be able to use a few Excel sheets. Is one of my pet hates tho
 
#3
I have Sinn Fein supporting Irishman at my work,who has defended the PIRA on the odd ocasion in front of me.
Not suprisingly,my reaction is not exactly calm.
The last time it happned,I was called into the supervisors office for an informal warning,and warned of the dangers of "intimidation" and "racist harrassment"

"Your not in the army any more ****" Was what I was told
"But I am in MY OWN country though?"

Dirty c unts.
 
#4
Managers have been my pet hate since getting out.

Unwillingness to take a decision.
Unwillingness to take responsibility for the consequences of a decision.
Inability to see the link between results obtained and resources expended - in either direction!
What seems to be a positive eagerness to be distracted from the main effort in favour of something high-profile.
An assumption that because they got a good report in their last job, they must be shit-hot and all-knowing in their new one despite this being their first exposure to the particular line of work.

I've met a fair few good ones, but for the most part I wouldn't trust them to do up their flies without holding a meeting first to ensure any blame gets spread.

Every time I hear one talking about 'mission statements' I want to beat them to death with a copy of TAM.
 

Pararegtom

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
I most hate the Blame game. Also the lack of integrity, not wishing to take any responsibility or be accountable, when the brown stuff hits the fan.

Fecking Moral cowards 75% of them.
 
#6
I think we have to accept that we are not - and never again will be - real civvies. The unique culture of the British Army, with its tribal loyalties and its emphasis in basic training on the application of external discipline until self-discipline is developed (unlike the system employed by the US and others, where they attempt to zombie the recruit and then rebuild him or her from the ground up, like a 6 million dollar man in cammo) not only makes for a more flexible and proactive soldier, but also ingrains in most of us long-term a basic level of reliability and responsiveness that is lacking in anyone with no serious military experience. Civvies have never been trained or tested in any meaningful way....and that is why they often suck so badly at their jobs.

We don't turn up late for a meeting because we got distracted. We prepare beforehand. We analyse the situation, identify options and pick the best course, then follow through. We know the drills and the SOPs, and when to go with a scientific wild-arrsed guess. We take responsibility for and understand the consequences of our actions. We know that in a perfect world there should be no rights without responsibilities, and that while RHIP, it also has bigger burdens than those carried at the coalface. We watch and learn. We don't suffer fools gladly.

I still use some lessons learned 34 years ago as a teenage J/Ldr in my daily life, not to mention all the others I have picked up in my subsequent military "career" :oops: . I would also invariably choose an ex-Tom over a similarly-qualified civvy for employment every time, (and frequently have done).

There used to be an ad campaign touting a bunch of UK employers who agreed that Sandhurst followed by a 3 year SSC was as good as a degree as far as they were concerned. As far as I am concerned, if you have done at least 6 years with an honourable discharge, and two objective Army references rate you "good bloke", then you are in the top 10% of the civvy workforce, and any organisation would be lucky to have you in preference to many of the back-stabbing pigdribblers and slope-shouldered paper pushers that pass as employees in civvy life.

On the other hand, some ex-soldiers are useless mongs who couldn't be trusted as trolly-gatherers in a Safeway car park without close supervision...
 
#7
Communication. I have yet to meet a manager or supervisor who knows the benifit of Good Communication. As in tell the troops on the ground WTF is going on, instead of blindly following memos etc from on high.
 
#8
duryard said:
Oh to many hates of civvies to mention here.
"mangers" dont have a fooking clue about man management or logistics. Just capable of crawling up some one elses arse to get the "manager" job and be able to use a few Excel sheets. Is one of my pet hates tho
not being funny but half the hierachy these days in the army do eactly the same thing!!
 
#9
smartascarrots said:
Unwillingness to take a decision.
This seems to be taught as part of the MBA course. Ignore it and it will either go away (claim credit for solving problem; tea and medals all round) or eventually become a major crisis (justified in throwing money and sweat at it to neutralise - claim credit for dealing with tricky crisis; aforementioned T&M) Only a fool apparently bothers with minor, non-critical stuff.

smartascarrots said:
Every time I hear one talking about 'mission statements' I want to beat them to death with a copy of TAM.
They do love their warspeak, don't they? I had to sit through a meeting recently where the phrases "tactical strategist" and "strategic tactician" were both employed. I think they could hear my eyeballs rolling up 180 in their sockets...
 
#10
jonesy279 said:
duryard said:
Oh to many hates of civvies to mention here.
"mangers" dont have a fooking clue about man management or logistics. Just capable of crawling up some one elses arse to get the "manager" job and be able to use a few Excel sheets. Is one of my pet hates tho
not being funny but half the hierachy these days in the army do eactly the same thing!!
I was about to say the same thing. This perception of civilians after we have served 22 years is very often a forced or chosen perception. There are good and bad civvy managers and there are good and bad throughout the military CoC.

Maybe some are expecting too much from young colleagues who have yet to learn from their mistakes in life. If you keep saying your civvy colleagues are poor performers then you are unlikely to change your view when a good one comes along. Don't let your perception cloud your future.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#11
Referring to the majority of the posts here, I have to ask do you reckon that none of these shennanigins happen in the Army? I saw most of the examples given here, openly practiced in the last 7 or so years of my service. People who knew f*ck all about the job nor were willing to learn, who ducked and dived and couldn't make a decision if it was the one which would save their life, openly and utterly unashamedly chasing promotion and very often getting it. The very same people lacking in any form of integrity believed that 'responsibility' and 'accountability' were dirty words. These same people used to stand in judgement of better men and very often destroyed the careers of those men.

Just look at those nuggets who 'wrote themselves up' for awards recently if you need an example of people lacking in integrity.
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#12
smartascarrots said:
Managers have been my pet hate since getting out.

Unwillingness to take a decision.
Unwillingness to take responsibility for the consequences of a decision.
Inability to see the link between results obtained and resources expended - in either direction!
What seems to be a positive eagerness to be distracted from the main effort in favour of something high-profile.
An assumption that because they got a good report in their last job, they must be shit-hot and all-knowing in their new one despite this being their first exposure to the particular line of work.

I've met a fair few good ones, but for the most part I wouldn't trust them to do up their flies without holding a meeting first to ensure any blame gets spread.

Every time I hear one talking about 'mission statements' I want to beat them to death with a copy of TAM.
This all sounds so familiar.
 
#13
I often get strang looks from the chaps I work with the MOD one's understand the mil sence of homour but the civilian contactors look at me like im a zombie some times. Several time they have complained to my SO2 about my direct and less than happy way of dealing/talking to them but who gives a dam as I say they can like it or lump it.
 
#14
People who email me when they work in the office next door.
People who have to stop for breaks at set times.
People who ask about % chance of achievement, its either 100% or 0% there is no in between.
People who go to work in shirts I wouldn't sleep in.
Women in offices who talk about soaps
the list goes on and on.
 
#15
It's not just ex-military types who are annoyed by management-speak, seagull managers (fly in, cr@p over everyone and fly out again), staff who turn up at their start time then disappear to the loo to put on their make-up or the canteen to get their breakfast, people who can't take responsibility, plan or predict. Or the culture where predicting can be seen as 'negativity' and questioning as 'lack of commitment'.

A lot of us lifetime civvies are hacked off by it too. Powerless to act, but sharing your frustration.

If it's any consolation I'd advise never, ever, ever work for an American Corporation. So long as you 'meet your numbers' at the end of the month, all is well. So starting in the third week of every month we all get at least four and usually six, reminders to fill in our timesheets. Which we do anyway. But it means that some wonk in an office 'meets his numbers'. We could have spent our time on arrse, or p1ssing off the customer, or in useless meetings all day long, but so long as it's booked, the company is doing well. Aaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhh!
 

old_fat_and_hairy

LE
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#16
and being an ex serviceman now working for serving ones is so much better! Captains and warrant officers that spout text book crap, and are not at all adaptable, lest they bugger their chances of advancement. A number of us have been doing our jobs for a long time. 10 years in my case, then a new military manager arrives, for his 18 month stint and immediately knows everything so much better than the long service civvy. As for mission statements; we have them produced on an almost weekly basis here, all emanating from ambitious officers who believe that putting their random thoughts onto a poster will guarantee them a staff appointment.
As for managerial techniques; the phrase 'you will do it because I want it done' is very stimulating, and prompts one to give their all!

So, look around at others, and realise there are good managers, there are bad managers and there are those who manipulate their todgers!
 
#17
old_fat_and_hairy said:
and being an ex serviceman now working for serving ones is so much better! Captains and warrant officers that spout text book crap, and are not at all adaptable, lest they bugger their chances of advancement. A number of us have been doing our jobs for a long time. 10 years in my case, then a new military manager arrives, for his 18 month stint and immediately knows everything so much better than the long service civvy. As for mission statements; we have them produced on an almost weekly basis here, all emanating from ambitious officers who believe that putting their random thoughts onto a poster will guarantee them a staff appointment.
As for managerial techniques; the phrase 'you will do it because I want it done' is very stimulating, and prompts one to give their all!

So, look around at others, and realise there are good managers, there are bad managers and there are those who manipulate their todgers!
Short, accurate & to the point.
 
#18
My pet peevs are:

Meetings where you waste 5 hours of your life, and everyone around the table decides to 'look into' the problem and then said problem just rolls over month after month with noting getting done.

Colleagues who give you information, quite well too in a nice short paragraph then carry on talking about it for 5 mins. I heard you the first time, you don't have to keep telling me. And for the love of God don't begin to follow me down the corridor continuing to speak about it!

Where one person objects to something on no reasonable grounds, such as what type of buffet food we'd have for a training day, simply because they don't like one thing on the menu, therefore reducing the rest of us to a manky buffet that they like. I hate the fact that so many people cannot think beyond their own needs rather than the teams!

I'm glad I'm off to work for my self soon! Only 38 days to push.
 
#19
The absolute mediocrity of life in Civdiv is embarrassing. They allow themselves to get shafted at every turn because they're gutless and won't stand up for themselves. We seem prepared to accept second class services when we paid for first class one. Then when we question those services, we get told that you can't hassle these people because it's harassment and we'll get the law onto you....This is just a minor issue amongst nearly all our problems. We get the piss taken out of us by all and sundry. Our country deserves what it gets because we are the most bovine race and deserve no better. Until we become more militant in our outlook, then nothing will change...The French don't put up with any of the nonsense we do, and good luck to them for that attitude! BTW, i don't put up with it either and neither should you....Fcuking Civvies get it sorted!! :evil:
 

old_fat_and_hairy

LE
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#20
TalaveraTom said:
The absolute mediocrity of life in Civdiv is embarrassing. They allow themselves to get shafted at every turn because they're gutless and won't stand up for themselves. We seem prepared to accept second class services when we paid for first class one. Then when we question those services, we get told that you can't hassle these people because it's harassment and we'll get the law onto you....This is just a minor issue amongst nearly all our problems. We get the piss taken out of us by all and sundry. Our country deserves what it gets because we are the most bovine race and deserve no better. Until we become more militant in our outlook, then nothing will change...The French don't put up with any of the nonsense we do, and good luck to them for that attitude! BTW, i don't put up with it either and neither should you....Fcuking Civvies get it sorted!! :evil:
So unlike the armed forces where one is free to tell any senior manager exactly what one thinks of him, the service that is provided by another unit, the supply chain and the very senior managers at the MoD. :p
 

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