Obamas's Watergate Moment?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Wordsmith, Jun 21, 2012.

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  1. Wordsmith

    Wordsmith LE Book Reviewer

    This story hasn't gotten much mainstream coverage yet, but it's building.

    The Fast and Furious scandal is turning into President Obama's Watergate – Telegraph Blogs
    'Fast And Furious' Just Might Be President Obama's Watergate - Forbes

    There is an overview of the story in the Telegraph article and full detail in the Forbes article. Here in outline is what has happened.

    1) Obama decides in 2009 to approve a covert operation - 'Operation Fast and Furious'. This is to allow gun dealers to sell firearms to people who are going to sell them on to the Mexican drugs cartels. The idea is to track the middlemen over the border and into Mexico and find out more about the drug cartels.

    This operation is carried out without the knowledge or approval of the Mexican government.

    2) The initial sales are about 650 AK47's, but later sales include Barrett .5 calibre snipers rifles. These sales are carried out with the active knowledge and approval of the ATF and the FBI. Eventual sales are estimated to have totalled 1,608 weapons valued over $1 million.

    3) Some of these guns eventually start turning up at serious crime scenes - mainly in Mexico, but occasionally in the US. The guns being used in the Obama sanctioned program are being used in murders.

    4) ATF personnel start protesting up the chain of command but are told to shut up.

    5) The story breaks into the American news when a US border patrol agent, Brian Terry, is killed by one of the weapons in December 2010.

    6) A Congressional hearing starts, but ATF officials are less than forthcoming with the facts.

    7) In February 2011 a Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agent, Jaime Zapata, is murdered in Mexico with another of the weapons. The US press starts taking more interest. CBS News runs a TV documentary about 'Operation Fast and Furious'.

    8) In the meantime ATF agents with direct knowledge of the operation are promoted and moved away from the area.

    9) The US congress continues to investigate. In the last couple of days Obama uses executive privilege to withhold documents. Congress responds by holding Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress.

    Looks like the shitstorm is building...

    Wordsmith
     
  2. Oops,not the sort of publicity you need,in an Election Year.

    Maybe there is a God,after all!:applaud:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. This has been rumbling on for a while now, but what set the kindling alight was his use of Executive Privilege yesterday. Jay Carney, his spokesman, was given a good dry bumming this lunchtime at the White House weekly, and the GOP definitely have the smell of blood.
     
  4. Fast and furious - 'gun walking'... not quite a match is it?

    Call me a bluff old traditionalist, but what is the point in just selling guns illegally?

    http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=jarking%20northern%20ireland&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fintelligence-ethics.org%2Fconference%2F09%2Fclarke.doc&ei=22rjT_K-G-KH0AXozLnMAw&usg=AFQjCNEYOBAABPRx3ehnTOdKsYGoCUl2Sg&cad=rja
     
  5. Nixon's tapes were directly related to a criminal trial which is why the Supreme Court ordered their disclosure. It was not Congress which compelled disclosure.

    Is anybody being charged for any of this? You have to keep in mind that almost everything Nixon did in 69-72 would now be considered legal. How 40 years changes things.

    I doubt we'll see impeachment.
     

  6. Agreed. I don't see anyone arguing that Obama has done anything illegal, just that he is using his powers to prevent embarassment and political damage; which given it's an election year is no small issue. Truth remains that an agent was slotted with a weapon that was allowed across the border. Of course the cartel could have got guns from any of a number of other sources but it's an embarassing, shabbily run operation by any assessment, and no-one has yet taken the rap for it.
     
  7. Err...he'll get away with it. He is black you see.
    His birth certificate is an online forgery - its been traced to a white house computer. So he can't be president. He will get away with that too (see above).
     
  8. Dunno about the White House computer bit, but the one shown online to shut up the "Birthers" has Photoshop tags all over it when looked at in a hex editor, which suggests it's been tampered with.

    Didn't Barry's old granny conveniently croak not long after saying she was present at Barry's birth in Kenya?
     
  9. Doesn't sound like he's done anything illegal. Unless the evidence is overwhelming - a smoking gun - impeachment very difficult. Clinton was aquitted by the senate in spite of quite obviously lying under oath.
     
  10. No, but it gotten two threads on ARRSE today. I'll repeat what I said on the Int Cell one re the DT piece

    I'll add that my two main news sources in the US are NPR and the Washington Post, neither is exactly a bastion of Republicanism, both have had lots of items.
     

  11. And which of the Republican intellectual minnows will replace him?
     
  12. Watergate (the scandal) began before the '72 election, which Nixon still won. In fact he won 49 out of 50 states!

    Impeachment a slow process. Could put an end to Obama's second term. Who's his running mate?
     
  13. monkey business!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. I have no time for the GOP's slate of candidates, but honestly, if in the event of an impeachment/resignation on the part of Obama, would they be any worse that President Joe Biden?
     
  15. Wordsmith

    Wordsmith LE Book Reviewer

    As varying commentators in the media have commentated, it wasn't the Watergate break in that did for Nixon - there's little doubt he wasn't aware of it. What did for Nixon was the cover-up afterwards. I think that'll be Obama's problem - his attempts to keep the lid on what appears to have been a piece of prime stupidity will be what brings him down.

    Nixon could have survived in office had he not tried to brush the activities of CREEP (Campaign to Re-elect the President) under the carpet. Instead, one lie fed off another until he was snared in a web that led to him resigning the presidency. The problems will start if Obama tries to keep things hidden because of the damage 'Operation Fast and Furious' could do to his re-election campaign in the hands of his political opponents.

    You can bet that 'Watergate II' will be on the lips of his opponents right up to November, with the Republicans subpoenaing more documents with the aim of forcing Obama into invoking executive privilege again. It's a lose/lose situation for him:

    -- Allow the request and more damaging information comes into the public domain. 1,600 weapons fuelled a lot of killing in Mexico and significant crime in the US.

    -- Claim executive privilege and damage his standing in the eyes of a good part of the electorate.

    I've got a feeling that this will put a substantial dent in Obama's re-election campaign.

    Wordsmith