NZ Army's new APCs

#1
This report in The New Zealand Herald has prompted the joke that the NZ Army has purchased one vehicle for peacekeeping and 104 as spare parts .

Breakdowns plague Army’s new vehicles.

Defence Minister backs $NZ 672 LAV fleet after first arrivals strike problems.
Mechanical faults have struck the first six of the Army’s expensive new armoured vehicles. The faults include breakdowns a turbo unit, a heater and an auxiliary power unit. One vehicle was out of action from October24 until mid-December after breaking an axle.

But Defence Minister Mark Burton yesterday defended the LAV III’s reliability saying the glitches were minor and to be expected with a new piece of equipment.

NZ First MP and former Army officer Ron Mark attacked the vehicle’s reliability after Mr. Burton revealed the faults in answers to his parliamentary questions. Mr. Mark said that he would not accept it on a Toyota Landcruiser.

The Government is buying 105 LAV’s from General Dynamics Land Systems Canada at a cost of $672 million (circa 245 million pounds) to replace the Army’s aging M113 APCs.

An American version of the LAV, the Stryker, has been criticised overseas for its lack or armoured protection but is being widely used in Iraq. A Canadian Army project director, Major Jim Atkins, was quoted in a Canadian newspaper on Monday as saying concerns about the Strykers ability to withstand rocket propelled grenades had been partly addressed. But its landmine armour had always been a concern, and new Strykers would probably need extra armour bolted on. Many US soldiers in Iraq seemed to like the vehicles.

Has any one experience with this vehicle ? Any comments on the price ? Which does include tools and spares - for 6.4 million bucks each I would have thought they would have thrown in a complete LAD
 
#2
as far as i have heard they are about on par for reliability with the sa80 and the collins class submarines and weren't they a great investment for the british army and australian navy respectively

oh and as for spares i think they come with a jack and a philips head :wink:
 

Unknown_Quantity

War Hero
Moderator
#3
mizkrissi said:
oh and as for spares i think they come with a jack and a philips head :wink:
If they work the same way as the MOD then they got a jack out of a mini and all the screws need a flat head :oops:
 
#4
1. Its a new vehicle in the Kiwi army so there are bound to be problems.
2. Its much better than saxon so can we have some please.
 
#6
i guess it just goes to show how truly difficult it is to build stuff for the forces that works with minimal problems from the word go. especially when it is designed and decided upon by those in government who do not use it and never ask those who do "hey what would work best, what do you need?". some of the best weapons and vehicles that are still in use by many armed forces today, were those designed in ww2 or post war. they are reliable, popular with troops and were designed with harsh operational environments in mind. there is no point designing something that looks pretty and shiny and has all the whizbang gadgets in it that then jams the first time it gets condensation/sand in it, or has so many electrical faults it is in for repairs more often than on active duty, or has to have lots of retools to make it operationally safe.

i would not ever try to say i have the answers to these kinds of issues, but someone out there does and someone needs to find them and ask them how to fix the problems we have, and do it fast.
 
#7
mizkrissi said:
i would not ever try to say i have the answers to these kinds of issues, but someone out there does and someone needs to find them and ask them how to fix the problems we have, and do it fast.
Real world engineering maxim:

"You can have it quick, cheap, or good. Pick two, you won't get the third"
 
#8
Cynics might say that the NZ Army does not actually want its shite and briney new LAVs to move. Stationary they make an ideal billboard on to which the NZ Army can paint the new, super-improved and vastly expensive new logo. To be admired by all those who coughed up - i.e. the NZ taxpayer

 
#9
oooo pretty! that is way better than our one. what does it say "army be depressed"? :wink:
 
#10
Its good to know that its not only the British Army that buys turkeys...

The aussies are also looking at a replacement for the M113 called the bushmaster, again it has all the makings of a white elephant, I saw one at Enoggra (aus army garrison) when I enquired to the drive "how well" it went he simply replied "dunno mate its hasnt moved for two months!"
 
#11
With new vehicles, radios, a replacement for the Land Rover that looks like Lada are trying to compete with Range Rover it's nothing but smiles over here. Pity there's such a manpower shortage that we won't get a chance to break anything as we won't have enough people to use them.
 
#12
AAAAH! Its good to see that as well as giving you the gift of parliamentary democracy, shakespeare, the rule of law, Adam Smith economics, beer, the english language...... we also provided you with the priceless gift of being able to completely **** up the eqpt procurement process and a mindset which selects 'shit kit' over 'effective kit' everytime........ that way we preserve our cherished interoperability. THREE CHEERS FOR THE BRITISH EMPIRE!!!!!!!! HURRAH!!!!!!
 
#13
Grubby_Kiwi said:
a replacement for the Land Rover that looks like Lada are trying to compete with Range Rover
The Pinzgaur



The Pinzgaur web site says;

"Stories about the Pinzgauer are usually about the laws of physics
and the glorious moment when they were broken"
Loads of squaddies sitting around discussing Bernoulli's Theorem and when the fcuking truck broke down again :?: :?:
 
#14
The Irish army had similar problems with mechanical breakdowns in the Swiss built version (MOWAG Piranha III= LAV III series), the first battalion group deployed to Liberia reported poor serviceabilty, and before that the initial conversion courses managed to flip one due to faulty suspension as well as seperate instances of armour cracking.

But then what vehicle has had a flawless entry into service?
 
#17
Willy Jeep, worked right out the metaphorical box... :thumbright:


So, basicallym, all thr NZ Army need to do it replace their entire LAV fleet with Jeeps, and it'll all be ok
 
#18
Those pinzgauers make an awful amount of noise for the speed they go at. Mind you, I do owe one rather glorious field ex in which my recce det spent 60 % of sitting under the cam net drinking brews and waiting for a spare starter motor to come out. God bless the pinzgauer, in all its French glory.
 
#20
Red-On said:
Its good to know that its not only the British Army that buys turkeys...

The aussies are also looking at a replacement for the M113 called the bushmaster, again it has all the makings of a white elephant, I saw one at Enoggra (aus army garrison) when I enquired to the drive "how well" it went he simply replied "dunno mate its hasnt moved for two months!"
The Bushmaster is not designed to replace the M113, and is designed to serve a different purpose - although given that they are both supposed to protect the troops inside them from bullets, I suppose you could potentially argue they're for the same thing.

The Bushmaster is a protected mobility vehicle, as opposed to an armoured personnel carrier; the troops it carries are considered motorised, as opposed to mechanised. As to how it goes - well gee, one breakdown does not equal a white elephant. In fact, various news reports, such as this one, the fact that the Yanks might be buying them,and the Dutch came back for seconds, suggest that they might not be the duff piece of kit you're making them out to be.

As to whether or not they're going to 'replace' the M113, I would suggest to you that, given the recent and ongoing upgrade of the M113's in service with two of the Battalions of the RAR, that they're not going anywhere, any time soon. If and when they are replaced, I'm willing to lay good money that it's going to be for something that delivers a similar sort of capability as a base line, in accordance with the Hardened and Networked Army doctine.
 

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