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Nuclear weapons to become illegal

I once read in a book, that the Soviet Union had a force of "sleeper agents" in America.

These agents, while outwardly appearing upstanding US citizens, were secretly in the employ of the Soviet Union. And were tasked with neutralising the US retaliatory capability in the event of nuclear war.

The agents would accomplish this by shooting US Minuteman ICBM missiles, when the missiles emerged from their underground silos. The location of the silos was well-known. So each agent (when tipped off by Radio Moscow that war was imminent) would go to a silo, and lurk outside it. The agent would be equipped with an sub-machine gun, readily available, as we all know, in the US.

Then, when the concrete lid of the silo slid open, and the missile was fired, and came out, the agent would riddle it with bullets from his gun. Thus rupturing the relatively thin outer skin of the missile, and destroying it on launch.

This seems a not implausible scenario. The US Minuteman force, when at its maximum strength in the 1960/90's, consisted of 1,000 missiles. Therefore only 1,000 secret agents would be required to knock out the lot.

These days, after all the SALT/ START treaties, the US Minuteman force has dwindled to a mere 400 missiles.
So isn't it even more vulnerable to such tactics.
Except you have never been to a silo or a maf for that matter. You don’t just walk right up to the damn things. Even bird hunting near one of the 14 missiles in Wyoming, on state land will get you a friendly flyover by a Huey.

SMG’s are not in fact readily accessible to the general population here.
You would be detected and challenged in short order. Foreigners don’t do well in the middle of flyover country. To many tells, and hanging around silos is a big one.
 

Charles1948

On ROPS
On ROPs
Except you have never been to a silo or a maf for that matter. You don’t just walk right up to the damn things. Even bird hunting near one of the 14 missiles in Wyoming, on state land will get you a friendly flyover by a Huey.

SMG’s are not in fact readily accessible to the general population here.
You would be detected and challenged in short order. Foreigners don’t do well in the middle of flyover country. To many tells, and hanging around silos is a big one.
Thanks Steamboat. My post was influenced by a vague recollection of a movie seen on TV, years ago.
In the movie, a lady had a Minuteman missile launch tube on her property. Practically in her backyard. And one day the concrete lid suddenly slid open! She knew something was up, and understandably grew alarmed. Possibly my memory is at fault in this.

Nevertheless, do you think that the concept of Russian agents attacking Minuteman silos pre-launch, can be entirely discounted? After all, the location of the silos is not secret. And if these silos were approached, not brazenly in full daylight - but at night, quietly, under cover of darkness, by a camouflaged agent with a machine-gun, how would the agent be detected?
 
Thanks Steamboat. My post was influenced by a vague recollection of a movie seen on TV, years ago.
In the movie, a lady had a Minuteman missile launch tube on her property. Practically in her backyard. And one day the concrete lid suddenly slid open! She knew something was up, and understandably grew alarmed. Possibly my memory is at fault in this.

Nevertheless, do you think that the concept of Russian agents attacking Minuteman silos pre-launch, can be entirely discounted? After all, the location of the silos is not secret. And if these silos were approached, not brazenly in full daylight - but at night, quietly, under cover of darkness, by a camouflaged agent with a machine-gun, how would the agent be detected?
By a multitude of sensors and bored Airmen with air cover.
 
Thankalso be eamboat. My post was influenced by a vague recollection of a movie seen on TV, years ago.
In the movie, a lady had a Minuteman missile launch tube on her property. Practically in her backyard. And one day the concrete lid suddenly slid open! She knew something was up, and understandably grew alarmed. Possibly my memory is at fault in this.

Nevertheless, do you think that the concept of Russian agents attacking Minuteman silos pre-launch, can be entirely discounted? After all, the location of the silos is not secret. And if these silos were approached, not brazenly in full daylight - but at night, quietly, under cover of darkness, by a camouflaged agent with a machine-gun, how would the agent be detected?
main-qimg-fd9f0ce288585f4fe65cabe8adfd9000.jpeg
 

Charles1948

On ROPS
On ROPs
By a multitude of sensors and bored Airmen with air cover.
Sensors can malfunction, and as you imply, airmen can get bored with watching things. Thus allowing hostile agents to get close to the silos undetected.

This leads me to wonder why the US even maintains its land-based ICBM force. Being fixed in position, the US missiles are vulnerable to attack, either by sneaky Russian agents (which you seem to discount) , or by highly accurate Russian MIRV ballistic missile warheads.

Why doesn't the US just rely on its sea-borne fleet of missile-carrying submarines as a deterrent force?
.
 

endure

GCM
Thanks Steamboat. My post was influenced by a vague recollection of a movie seen on TV, years ago.
In the movie, a lady had a Minuteman missile launch tube on her property. Practically in her backyard. And one day the concrete lid suddenly slid open! She knew something was up, and understandably grew alarmed. Possibly my memory is at fault in this.

Nevertheless, do you think that the concept of Russian agents attacking Minuteman silos pre-launch, can be entirely discounted? After all, the location of the silos is not secret. And if these silos were approached, not brazenly in full daylight - but at night, quietly, under cover of darkness, by a camouflaged agent with a machine-gun, how would the agent be detected?


Here's the front door of a Minuteman site. I don't think a machine gun would cut it...

minuteman-missle-site-750x474-cebd23283930.jpg
 
Sensors can malfunction, and as you imply, airmen can get bored with watching things. Thus allowing hostile agents to get close to the silos undetected.

This leads me to wonder why the US even maintains its land-based ICBM force. Being fixed in position, the US missiles are vulnerable to attack, either by sneaky Russian agents (which you seem to discount) , or by highly accurate Russian MIRV ballistic missile warheads.

Why doesn't the US just rely on its sea-borne fleet of missile-carrying submarines as a deterrent force?
.
Because the only way to kill the ICBM’s is with a sizeable number of warheads, that have to be launched at the US heartland. In which case only the Russians can do that, at the expense of their country and population
 

Charles1948

On ROPS
On ROPs
Because the only way to kill the ICBM’s is with a sizeable number of warheads, that have to be launched at the US heartland. In which case only the Russians can do that, at the expense of their country and population
But If the US didn't have any ICBM's in its heartland, then the Russians wouldn't need to launch any missiles at the heartland in the first place
 

Charles1948

On ROPS
On ROPs
That is a big assumption, and the ICBM’s are only able to be killed one way. So that is a default nuke fight.
Well that's the point. The US land-based ICBM's can be killed only one way - by the Russians launching an attack on the USA. But if the Russians did that, they'd be expunged by a massive retaliatory response from the US SLBM force at sea. Therefore the Russians wouldn't attack in the first place.
 

Charles1948

On ROPS
On ROPs
He is talking about hiding outside of the silo door hanging out by the chain link fence and trying to pump a missile with 9mm as it launches. Without somehow becoming a piece of ash.

You wait until the missile emerges from the silo. All the initial exhaust-blast from the missile is safely contained within the silo. Once the missile is clear of the silo, you open up with your MG and rip it to shreds
 

arfah

LE
A lot of effort for something that’s only been used in anger, twice?

Hand grenades should be way up the list!
 
If it’s anything like the anti-personnel landmine convention or the convention on cluster munitions, then it’s only binding on those who sign it.
As I understand it, the point of the new treaty is to embarrass and put pressure on the P5 nuclear powers to comply with their own obligations under the NPT rather than continuing to try to enjoy the advantages of the treaty while declining to observe it themselves.

Under the NPT treaty the P5 are required to engage in good faith negotiations towards complete nuclear disarmament, to liquidate their nuclear weapons stockpiles, as well as the means of delivery.

It's been 50 years since the NPT was signed, and while there were earlier nuclear disarmament rounds which did cut stockpiles, there's been little sign of progress or even attempts at progress in recent years. The new treaty is intended to form a foundation for signatories to exert diplomatic pressure to get NPT disarmament talks started again.
 
You wait until the missile emerges from the silo. All the initial exhaust-blast from the missile is safely contained within the silo. Once the missile is clear of the silo, you open up with your MG and rip it to shreds
Then the other 139 missiles??

MG or SMG? A slight difference in capability.

How do you propose not tripping alarms and being killed by the QRF?

How do you propose you get that many agents in to Hicksville and having them blend in seamlessly?
 
Then the other 139 missiles??

MG or SMG? A slight difference in capability.

How do you propose not tripping alarms and being killed by the QRF?

How do you propose you get that many agents in to Hicksville and having them blend in seamlessly?
Personally I would just put a large net attached to the ground with bungee cords over the top of each of the silos. Then when the missiles tried to come out the bungee cords would bounce them back in again where they would blow up. That's probably a lot more practical than trying to stand outside the silo with an SMG and shoot through the flames and smoke at a missile.
 
Personally I would just put a large net attached to the ground with bungee cords over the top of each of the silos. Then when the missiles tried to come out the bungee cords would bounce them back in again where they would blow up. That's probably a lot more practical than trying to stand outside the silo with an SMG and shoot through the flames and smoke at a missile.
1603670559215.jpeg


It all sounds like this!
 
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