NSPs on the Cadet GP Rifle

#1
A friend of mine is an officer in the CCF at the school where she teaches. When I spoke to her this weekend she told me how most of the cadets had failed their weapon handling test, which was conducted by soldiers from the local cadet training team. Apparently the major mistake was at the beginning of the test where the rifle was on the table, with the safety catch off, and the cadet was asked to take control of the rifle. The cadets picked up the rifle then put the safety catch to safe before continuing further. According to the cadet training team this was wrong, the cadets should have put the safety catch to safe before even picking up the rifle. (I hope this description of events makes sense.)
So my question is, are the weapon drills for cadets now different to those used by the rest of the Army? I had always been taught (both when in the CCF and the OTC) that when taking control of the rifle you pick it up and then put the saftey catch to safe.
 
#2
I did mine, if memory serves me correctly, 10 years ago, and we were definitely taught to check/apply the safety before picking it up. I'm not sure what the big boys do, as that period proved to be my only dip into military life for some time!
 
#3
as far as i remember, you have to pick it up and point it in a safe direction. Then apply the safety catch. This is so you have no accidents trying to push the safety. Anyway that drill wouldn't work if the weapon was laid on its other side with cocking handle face down!
 
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#4
Hmm, bit rusty on this as I havent taught weapon skills and drills for about 6 months but:

If the rifle is on the table then surely it is impossible to flick the safety on without picking it up unless its the wrong side up and resting on the cocking handle? 8O

I always taught, and was taught, to take control of the weapon by the pistol grip then perform a visual and physical check of the weapon's state (safe, made ready etc) before continuing with the NSP..

As I said I may be a little rusty, it has been some time and ive been very, very drunk since then :D
 
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#6
Devil_leader said:
I have just finished with the Cdts and i was always taught to apply the safety catch before picking the weapon up or taking control of the weapon.
Pump DS :roll:
 
#7
Sounds like a very pedantic CTT. If the rifle is loaded, these drills must be done in the prone position anyway. To comply with the safe handling rules in the red book, the weapon must always be pointed in such a direction that there is no danger if a round is accidentally fired. This is what the manual says about the test (having set up the test with the rifle laid on the floor as it suggests)
1. Order the cadet to hand you the
rifle. He should:
a. Lie down behind the rifle.
b. Ensure that it is pointing in a
safe direction.
c. Put the safety catch to S.
d. Remove the magazine. Check
the magazine and place in the
pouch. Cock the weapon and
check that the breech is empty
 
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#9
I mean it sounds like your DS/CTT either havent read the manual properly or have no appreciation of common sense + practicality vs 'THE ROOLZ'.

But then again i could be wrong, but that very rarely happens :lol:
 
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#10
Then again I was an ATC Weapons Instructor, Don't know if there are an differences in weapon handling drills, seems silly if there are.
 
#11
You can check the safety catch no matter which way the rifle is. You should know what the safety looks like so you should be able to tell if the weapon is safe or not. Likewise, if you can tell if the weaopon is not on safe then you can put your hand under the trigger guard and put the weapon on safe, or if it's on the other side you can just puch on the button.

However, I don't remember ever having to do this on the test....

T C
 
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#12
The_Cheat said:
You can check the safety catch no matter which way the rifle is. You should know what the safety looks like so you should be able to tell if the weapon is safe or not. Likewise, if you can tell if the weaopon is not on safe then you can put your hand under the trigger guard and put the weapon on safe, or if it's on the other side you can just puch on the button.
Aye true, you can visually check the state of the weapon but I would never advise fiddling around under the trigger guard if the safety is off, especially where cadets are concerned. I seem to remember failing someone for this very thing not too long before I gave it all up.

After performing a visual on the weapon's state, if the safety is off then the weapon is to be treated as loaded and ready to fire so should be picked up by the pistol grip only, pointed in a safe direction at all times and the safety applied, then carry on with NSP.

Edited once for pump spelling, well, I am a civvie!
 
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#14
Trouble is too many fads get picked up along the way and before you know it are in the bloody book!

Do you pongo cdt lot have to do the 7 point check, spinning the rifle round all over the place while prone?

Fcuking ludicrous in my humble!
 
#15
If the test is conducted correctly, an empty magazine should be fitted and the rifle on the floor. Drills therefore must be done in the prone position. Cadets must check forward, down and rear twice and then check (either visually or manually) that no magazine is fitted. This would never involve spinning the rifle around, merely tilting it to allow inspection of the chamber. If you would like the test format, PM me and I can send you a copy. That is as per the manual. If you teach it & test it like that, you can't go far wrong.
 
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#16
Im very familiar with the manual ta, and Its not much use to me now as im out of the game.
What I meant by the 7 pointer is the checks, as described, but with the addition of a check in the magazine housing doobry, meaning you have to tilt the rifle upside down!

Could never find it in the book but still got in trouble with my superiors for not including it n my lessons!
 
#17
A visual check for the mag is mentioned in unload para but not on NSPs. We are due a new manual in the next few months, maybe it will be formalised in that?!?
 
#19
Personally in WHTs ive done with both L85 and L98 you see the rifle with mag in and safety off sights up,

-reach under the weapon and apply the safety (the big handguard keeps it off the deck so you CAN reach under without picking it up
-pick it up and unload the weapon
-put the sights down
-Safety, Selector (on L85) sights crap cover


then declare yourself done

Any the seven point check seems to have been changed, the same SAI who used to tell me to flip it over (the logic being that if youve been a retard and left the mag in youd catch it on your arm, personally if your that dumb to forget to remove the mag then you shouldnt be near ANY weapon anyway including chairs, knifes or anything), anyway the SAI has just told us to look down through the ejection port into the magwell. far easier while prone
 
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