Now IRAQ says we have violated their sovereignty!

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by hansvonhealing, Apr 7, 2007.

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  1. Guardian
    Iraq Says Britain Violated Sovereignty

    Saturday April 7, 2007

    BAGHDAD (AP) - A British-led raid on a police intelligence headquarters in southern Iraq last month violated Iraq's sovereignty as well as a U.N. Security Council resolution, the government said on Friday.

    On March 4, British forces raided the National Iraqi Intelligence Agency building in the southern city of Basra and said they had captured an alleged death squad leader and found 30 prisoners with signs of torture. The rest of the prisoners in the facility fled during the raid, but Britain said that was unintentional.

    The report on an investigation into the raid said the commander of the U.S.-led Multi-National Forces in Iraq should ``officially apologize to the Iraqi people, the residents of Basra and the Interior Ministry.''

    It also said coalition forces should ``acknowledge that members of the Multi-National Forces have overstepped their authority, committed a major mistake and were negligent in allowing prisoners to escape.''

    The report, signed by Minister of State for Parliament Affairs and acting Justice Minister Safa al-Safi, said coalition forces should not take prisoners already in Iraqi custody without first getting a warrant from judicial authorities.

    It did not mention that some of the detainees showed signs of torture.

    At the time, Prime Minister Nouri Al-Maliki vowed to punish ``those who carried out this illegal and irresponsible act.''

    The investigation said that by detaining the suspect, multinational forces ``violated the orders of an Iraqi judge, blatantly surpassed its authority and infringed on Iraq's sovereignty in contradiction with Security Council resolution 1546.''

    The resolution assures Iraq will have full sovereignty and that all foreign troops eventually will leave the country.

    Britain has 7,100 troops in Iraq, mostly based around Basra.,00.html

    Do you think they'll take hostages?
  2. I guess the best way to avoid any further upset is to pull out altogether now.
  3. Pull out althogether and leave these ungrateful animals to kill eachother.
  4. They did have a point back in 2003....
  5. Very good, MrPVRd...
  6. Bring back Saddam if he was alive!
  7. There is just no pleasing some people!! Damned if you do and damned if you dont!!
  8. Quite right you just cannot undestand it, a foreign power invades their counry on fabricated evidence of the threat of weapons of mass destruction which never existed, completely destroys what infastrucure there was, executes their leader, creates a suituation which leads to the deaths of thousands of their fellow citizens and the buggers are not gratefull ,amazing innit ?
  9. 1. Infrastructure? They can barely dress themselves, ffs.

    2. Our presence in Iraq may have directly or indirectly caused thousands of deaths, but it's still a drop in the ocean compared to the hundreds of thousands that Saddam had executed. Who's to say how much worse it may have been if we had turned a blind eye?

    Besides all of which, you forgot that we're British. We can't be foreign. :D
  10. Ten years of scrapping with Iran, half of the USAF and RAF dropping every bridge etc you have, a big nasty land war with half of the westen world, ten years of crushing sanctions and random bombing for said ten years tend to fcuk up a countrys infrastructure, we should of just kept rolling on Op Granby.
  11. I don't think even the Press boys of the MoD can mess this one up. All they have to do is emphasise the fact that we found torture going on...
    Also, without our help this murderous scum known as the Iraq government would probably be being tortured by the previous murderous scum known as the Iraq government!
  12. As I understood it, hostage taking is the day-to-day activity of many militia groups in Southern Iraq, and on the increase. I take your point in respect of BRITFOR being taken hostage and there is some merit to the thrust of The Guardian's article.

    So, who is actually in charge of Southern Iraq? The Iraqi government, MND (SE) or a combination of the two?

    Ordinary Iraqis are told the Iraqi Government is a recognised Sovereign Government, in which case, the role of coalition forces, must be made absolutely clear, both to the populace and the soldier on the ground.

    The trotting out of party lines, isn't going to cure the ills of Iraq, but the influence of outside governments, foreign forces and interests must be made as transparent to the Iraqi people in order to go forward.

    Maybe if the UK government spent more time on the tribal elements that have openly condemned the hostage taking, than on those groups that make the headlines, all parties would see stability and reconstruction efforts making clearer headway. At present, collectively, all efforts seem to be towards fire-fighting an enflamed situation that in some respects our presence makes worse.

    I appreciate that British Forces pers are doing some great work in Southern Iraq, and feel for every soldier who has a bad experience out there, and especially for those whose family members are injured or have made the ultimate sacrifice. At the same time, even the most pro "rebuild Iraq" fan must now welcoming input from any corner, and yet HMG appears to stifle debate on the subject because of the "easy criticism" that it has in many respects bought on itself under Tony Blair's leadership.

    This is a crazy situation, there is more open debate and honesty on ARRSE then in our parliament!

    The current accusations against the Iranian Government in respect of the sponsorship of terrorist acts in Southern Iraq will in all probability be denied by the Iranian leaders, irrespective of evidence or opinion to the contrary.

    Since May 2003, the insecurity of the Iraq / Iran border has been clearly understood by even casual observers, with the risks associated with smuggling and people being able to drift across the border without challenge. Strangely, the security of Iraqi borders has been of concern to its neighbours previously. Forces who were either involved in crossing the border in 2003, or those travelling into Kuwait from Iraq since will have noted the border security that exists between the two countries, comprising of dual 15ft close messh electrified fences, anti tank ditches, bunds, cameras, regular patrols of Kuwaiti Border Guards and then a 2Km DMZ. This level of security ensures Kuwait's security worries in respect of the movement of people especially. Similarly Saudi Arabia has a similar level of security along the length of its border.

    Is it not about time that the UN sat the representatives of the Iranian and Iraqi governments around the table to agree that as long as the border remains in its current state, that the accusations will continue, and we will continue to mourn the loss of Iraqi people and British pers? On this basis, the Iranian government would agree to such a border? Build the thing either way - This is not South Armagh, the vast majority of the surrouding desert is uninhabited.

    Possibly, somebody might like to do a few "back of the fag packet" calculations to cost the type of border security that Kuwait has, per mile of the Iranian Border. Compare this cost to the British lives and injuries that are according the UK Government, the responsiblilty of Iranian influences, government or otherwise? For the sake of accuracy, produce your estimate for the type of cost that Haliburton or similar company will charge for the work as well. I don't doubt that all of this has been considered, and that cost would be cited as the reason for it not to happen. Perhaps now is the time for Gordon Brown to get his ARRSE out there, with a crack UK Treasury team and explain how all this could be achieved under a PFI deal.

    Currently, the number of refugees fleeing Iraq is increasing, with the rest of the region now looking on, increasingly worried that the current problems will be generational as opposed to short term.

    The Iranian government has had good reason for a generation, to know what is going on in it's most worrying neighbour, so it should come as no surprise to us that it continues to do so. Please do not think this as condoning terrorism by any means, and in particular that carrried out by the state.

    If your neighbours dog keeps fouling in your garden, either build a good fence or shoot the fecker. Threatening to shoot the fecker doesn't stop the dog from fouling, but a fence stops it being your issue.
  13. I expect a lot of 'incoming' for posting this but I think we violated Iraqi sovereignty four years ago.

    Saddam was an unsupportable and evil man. Mugabe is beyond description and the North Korean leader is in the same league. There are others in Africa and elsewhere who 'deserve' to have their sovereignty violated.

    On the other hand, I am sure there are those nations who believe our 'leaders' are beyond the pale - I am one - and if these nations had the means would invade Great Britain. We would be mightily p*ssed off in such an event.

    I think the second post has it spot on - withdraw now!

    All this makes it even harder to bear the deaths and injuring of our forces sent on an unjust mission by a deluded and downright dangerous man, whose time has come and whose legacy will be too painful, but true, for him to read.
  14. Totally agree with that. The toll on the first day of the Somme is frightening to think of, but every man that day gave his life for something that they believed in, and their sacrifice wasn't in vain.

    The guys on the ground in Iraq have a job to do, and are doing it as only they can being professional soldiers, but with news of each fatality/casualty I can only think, 'what a waste'
  15. Its about time we got our guys home from Iraq. if they want to fight among themselves then let them. But warn the iraq government if they support terror and go back to how they were under saddam then we will be back. it just seems that we are in a fight that we cannot control or have a hope of winning.