Not such a fire in the belly moment then?

#3
Quite clever perhaps? Old Timmy boy milked that speech and a few sad photos for all it was worth and I bet he never thought it would do another rotation, Perhaps there is an agreement between the two of them as Collins' response was pretty muted.

Now, if you want to know if his RSM thought he was cnut, you're going to have to read the book.
 
#4
I think this is an example of how the Officer/SNCO system SHOULD and does work in the British Army...

The CO is looking at the big picture.. what he said was 100% right, and IMHO, needed saying... He was setting the mark for what he wanted his men to do, whether they liked it or not... The RSM was equally right in that he noticed the effect it was having on some individuals - and yes, he did something about it..

The secret of the British Army's success lies in the dynamic tension between the Officers and NCOs - the Officer looking at the objectives, the NCO sorting out the means. It is very subtle, operates on a number of levels, and has developed over 100s of years. Civilian society really does not understand this, the press in particular see it as a class thing, which it is to some extent, but not in the popular sense...

The greatest risk to the system is the increasing percentage of Civil Serpents now in the CoC, who REALLY do not get it, and seem to want to usurp the chain at every turn.

I think the RSM is having a cheap shot and should be ashamed of himself. In every sergents mess bar I have been invited into is a small notice ...

"What is said in the Mess stays in the Mess"

A pity Mr Beatty seems to have forgotten it...?
 
#5
On the other hand Collins hit worldwide fame because the Journo who reported it was also receiving Collins' man meat on a regular basis.

Allegedly.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#6
Captured more territory than any other unit? What, after the whole US Marine Division had already rolled through it 2 days before?

Never a man to understate his achievements, is he?
 
#7
Was he the same man in the OMLT in the Sean Langan doc 'Taking on the Taliban'?
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#8
MrShanklysboots said:
On the other hand Collins hit worldwide fame because the Journo who reported it was also receiving Collins' man meat on a regular basis.

Allegedly.
I've worked with her before. I wouldn't put it past her.

A very, very, very ambitious woman.
 
#9
HE117 said:
I think the RSM is having a cheap shot and should be ashamed of himself. In every sergents mess bar I have been invited into is a small notice ...

"What is said in the Mess stays in the Mess"

A pity Mr Beatty seems to have forgotten it...?
Yes a pity the bally OR doesn't know his place guffaw, guffaw.

So you don't buy into the 'Timmy was a cnut' school of thought then?
 
#10
Ah yes, Sarah Oliver.....she had an extra-smug 4 page photoshoot published in Hello to tell the world how clever she was for marrying a Col.

and is this the same Capt Doug Beattie who was awarded the MC not so long ago?
 
#12
In that case he's fully entitled to an opinion :)

I'm suprised to read that the speech demoralised the boys as most of them couldn't hear a word he was saying
 
#13
Maybe that's why it was demoralising - sitting for twenty minutes in front of the world's press hearing only sand being swept past you.
 
#14
western said:
HE117 said:
I think the RSM is having a cheap shot and should be ashamed of himself. In every sergents mess bar I have been invited into is a small notice ...

"What is said in the Mess stays in the Mess"

A pity Mr Beatty seems to have forgotten it...?
Yes a pity the bally OR doesn't know his place guffaw, guffaw.

So you don't buy into the 'Timmy was a cnut' school of thought then?
Nowt to do with the bally OR... you know as well as I do that the best solutions come from the two tribes working against each other...

... and I didn't say anything about what I think about Timmy, just what he said... :wink:

Didn't say that....!
 
#15
Would this be the same Beattie who when asked outside the Sgts Mess by a SNCO when he was RSM how could he justify his blase attitude to his fellow Mess members replied "I couldn't give a **** about members of the Mess"? Its strange how he feels that he has now to berate Tim Collins about his speech ( oh yes Beattie now has a book out) regarding his turn of speech. Old dogs have long memories and can come back to bite you on the arse Dougie! People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, unless of course the money from your book will buy replacement panes of glass. How do I know I was there.
 
#16
HE117 said:
western said:
HE117 said:
I think the RSM is having a cheap shot and should be ashamed of himself. In every sergents mess bar I have been invited into is a small notice ...

"What is said in the Mess stays in the Mess"

A pity Mr Beatty seems to have forgotten it...?
Yes a pity the bally OR doesn't know his place guffaw, guffaw.

So you don't buy into the 'Timmy was a cnut' school of thought then?
Nowt to do with the bally OR... you know as well as I do that the best solutions come from the two tribes working against each other...

... and I didn't say anything about what I think about Timmy, just what he said... :wink:

Didn't say that....!
Can't say that I disagree with you , just taking the Mick :D
 
#17
Quote
"What is said in the Mess stays in the Mess"
Unquote

Yes - but what was said here was not said in the Mess. It was put about the world. POTUS had it framed and hung in his office. Again, the reaction at the time was purely from civilians who know FA about army ways. I welcomed the ex-RSM input. I'm sure TC is big enough to take it.
 
#18
If civilians do not understand then does he not have a responsibility to try to explain, in his book for a civilian market, the beneficial tension existing between Officers and NCOs ?

I do not have an opinion on this pair. But the range of available opinions does include the possibility that they are both nobs.
 
#19
MrShanklysboots said:
On the other hand Collins hit worldwide fame because the Journo who reported it was also receiving Collins' man meat on a regular basis.

Allegedly.
But...but...she appears to be a hideous gwar!
 

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