Not content to bulldoze Checkpoint C memorial...

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by stoatman, Aug 2, 2005.

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  1. ...which consisted of 1000 crosses dedicated to the people murdered at the Berlin Wall by the East German regime, the left-wing Berlin government now want to resurrect a statue of Lenin :shock:

    Perhaps to help tourism they should put a 50' high statue of Hitler next to Lenin? And maybe fly some Swastikas from the Reichstag? I mean, c'mon, really, this is like China putting up a statue of Hirohito or something (not my own, robbed from comments on And people are worried about "neo-nazis" - it appears that Berlin has some real communists in its government! I just hope that when it goes up, the East Germans egg & grafitti it to death. Otherwise I'll be over there doing it!
  2. When did the Checkpoint Charlie memorial get destroyed? I was there in February and found this to be a highlight of my visit. Did its removal have anything to do with its somewhat unofficial nature?
  3. But don’t we have a statue of Oliver Cromwell outside parliament so we can talk!

    Seriously I agree with Stoatman, if a country with a history such as that is beginning to hark back to the ‘Good Old bad old days’, then the next thing you know they will be wearing spiky helmets.

    History is there to be learnt from, not yearned for
  4. Ossi-stalgia is big business in Germany.

    There are TV programs extolling the virtues of East-German way of life, companies maufacturing goods that were available before the "Wende" (Reunification) Though strangely enough not Trabbies :).

    If you look at the upcoming elections in BRD the "neue Lander" ie the old DDR the Left wing parties have a massive majority and will probably have quite a large say in the new government as their seats will be required for any of the main stream parties to be able to govern.

    You have to remember that the East Germans had 100% employment and cradle to grave state support. Since they joined the rest of the country they have found free market capitalism hard to get used to.
  5. That's cos anyone who didn't have a real job was tasked to spy on "suspect" neighbours in the pay of the Stasi.
  6. The Monocled Mutineer said
    "But don’t we have a statue of Oliver Cromwell outside parliament so we can talk!"

    The reason we have Cromwells statue outside parliament is that without him we wouldn't have a parliament or democracy or much by way of freedom of speech.
  7. getting like that here mate! :wink:
  8. Sorry, but things have got a little skewed here. It's not so much the actual Communist rule that the East-Germans yearn for, but rather the social conditions that went with it.

    The reason that left-wing parties have such a strong following in the former GDR is because the East-Germans don't trust the established German political parties. And small wonder! Kohl, who was always regarded as a thickie in Germany, made a complete cock-up of the exchange-rate fiasco and was reined in by circumstances, which meant that East-Germans earned 30 percent less that West-Germans. Now, because the East-Germans had very little idea about running a capitalist economy, West-German administrators were imported in their thousands. Imagine sitting across from some tw@t who's doing exactly the same job as you but earning 30 percent more, plus very generous separation allowances.

    What I find amazing is that practically all East-Germans attibute their present situation to their own naivety and not to the fact that they were most shamelessy exploited by the West-Germans.

    Isch miis Mainig!

  9. it has actually come to the point where many ossies actually want the wall back but twice as high.
    what would the scenario would have been if East Germany didnt unify ?
    1) they might have continued but the finance would have been in a poor state and the best skilled people left to go to the west.
    2) but venturing into conterfactual territory , supposing the Skilled people stayed on and the East German govt managed to adapt to free market economy thing may be a bit different , opinion anybody on this ?
  10. semper, with reference to your posting: all wishful thinking, since the odds were stacked against the East-Germans from the get-go. Let me give you a couple of examples to illustrate that:

    Just after reunification, if WEST-GERMANS wanted to start businesses in the former GDR, they were allowed to defer any payments of tax against likely losses in the first year. If EAST-GERMANS wanted to start the same sort of businesses, they had to pay taxes three months in advance from the first day.

    The German government subsidises mining in West Germany to the tune of billions of euros a year. That also includes opencast mining. The East-Germans had developed the most advanced opencast mining systems in the world and could produce at world prices, i.e. without any subsidies. The German government refused to invest in modernising the East German mining industry and in one fell swoop 230,000 people were left without jobs.

    The CTK (Cottbusser Textilkombinat) was producing textile products at world prices for the home market, but mainly for Wester Europe (including mail-order firms in Germany, France, UK etc). It was closed down on the orders of the German government, with the loss of a further 6,000 jobs, so as not to endanger jobs in the West-German textile industry. And this in Cottbus, which was the centre of the already heavily hit mining industry

    It's important to remember that at the time of reunification, West Germany was sliding into a very deep recession. The opening up to the East was regarded as an opportunity to revitalise the economy and never as a reunion of a divided country.

    All very cynical, I know, but those are the facts. I was there to witness it.

  11. no wonder the ossies are pi.ssed off with the reunification and no wonder they want the wall back.
    I went to Berlin shortly after the wall was opened up, i could see the Ossies being exploited and did feel they should have remained independent as the east is lutheran and has a different culture compared to the catholic west and different background, there was bound to be a clash, with the east being the junior partner.
    there should hve been a bit of breathing space before any attempt was made to reunify to reflect in the cold light of the day without being swept up in emotional German Brotherhood, the Austrians managed to live outside of the Reich so im sure the equally German speaking Ossies could.