Not a good week for Boeing

This is no-news and fake if you read what the POTUS says.

But in real terms sooner or later the 737 Max program will be dead & to costly to redeem itself from.
Boeing will bounce back with new planes, but the computer error needs to be fixed and seen to be fixed.

For a pilot to be unable to recover the the nose pitching down is serious and with no over ride its dangerous.
Most pilots will run checks when it occurs, when you can not get the response you want your in trouble.

Hence planes crash!
 
Initial accident report published:

http://www.ecaa.gov.et/documents/20435/0/Preliminary+Report+B737-800MAX+,(ET-AVJ).pdf/4c65422d-5e4f-4689-9c58-d7af1ee17f3e

Bottom line, crew did as trained. The bulletin from Boeing at the end of the document makes my blood run cold.
How so? It is noted as evidence that Boeing updated and/or re-enforced protocols for this particular failure after the Lion crash and less than 2 weeks before this one, which means the possibility of this type of failure was acknowledged and should have been fresh in the minds of everyone concerned.

The really scary part of the report is that the data recorders do not apparently record the actions of turning off both cutout switches, but the report does note:

At 05:40:35, the First-Officer called out “stab trim cut-out” two times. Captain agreed and FirstOfficer confirmed stab trim cut-out.

At 05:40:41, approximately five seconds after the end of the ANU stabilizer motion, a third instance of AND automatic trim command occurred without any corresponding motion of the stabilizer, which is consistent with the stabilizer trim cutout switches were in the ‘’cutout’’ position.
Which was followed a page later with:

At 05:43:11, about 32 seconds before the end of the recording, at approximately 13,4002 ft, two momentary manual electric trim inputs are recorded in the ANU direction. The stabilizer moved in
the ANU direction from 2.1 units to 2.3 units.

At 05:43:20, approximately five seconds after the last manual electric trim input, an AND automatic trim command occurred and the stabilizer moved in the AND direction from 2.3 to 1.0 unit in
approximately 5 seconds. The aircraft began pitching nose down. Additional simultaneous aft column force was applied, but the nose down pitch continues, eventually reaching 40° nose down. The stabilizer position varied between 1.1 and 0.8 units for the remainder of the recording.
This being consistent with the stab trim cutout switches being reset to automatic operation in contravention of established protocols. Rather difficult to accidently move the blocking plate out of the way then accidently throw both switches back up...

Meaning, Crew did not do as trained.

Of course since switch positions and signal (or lack of) is not captured, simply reading what is recorded as consistent with strange behaviour on the part of the co-pilot is not the only option. It also leaves the highly improbable second possibility that the control program gained sentience and decided on it's own to reprogram itself to disregard the cutout switches, which it had previously yielded control to, in order to commit suicide.
 
I think you’ve cut and pasted my post from the original Ethiopian Crash thread. I’ve posted a response there?

I started this thread as a distinct one to that as it relates to a separate matter.
 
That's nothing. Airbus wing production in Broughton was plagued for years by a phantom shitter (allegedly). He (or she) would leave turds in the awkward, hard-to-spot spaces of the wings before final fit-out. Despite the management appointing a shit-finder task force, there are probably a lot of Airbus models still flying Broughton turds through the skies today.
 
I have had to hoover out hundreds of rivet stubs and other sheet metal worker's waste from aircraft in for a C-Check. It was common to find drill bits, small offcuts, the odd screwdriver or spanner and things dropped by the cabin fitters that ended up in the bowels of the aircraft. Inspectors werent doing their job and the bashers hated being called out to tidy up their mess.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
I have had to hoover out hundreds of rivet stubs and other sheet metal worker's waste from aircraft in for a C-Check. It was common to find drill bits, small offcuts, the odd screwdriver or spanner and things dropped by the cabin fitters that ended up in the bowels of the aircraft. Inspectors werent doing their job and the bashers hated being called out to tidy up their mess.
Very common to find in WWII military aircraft, too - as restorers often discover.
 
Yet further reputational bad news for Boeing with another safety incident. No reporting on whether GE or RR engine involved.

'Plane debris rained down “like bullets” when metal fragments fell off a Boeing 787 Dreamliner shortly after take-off in Rome. People living under the aircraft’s flight path were pounded by hundreds of eight-inch chunks as the Norwegian jet departed the city’s Leonardo da Vinci–Fiumicino Airport on Saturday.

'An air investigation has now been launched into the incident, which saw the plane abandon its planned flight to Los Angeles and instead, after circling twice over the Tyrrhenian Sea, return to Rome. It is thought the debris fell from the plane’s left engine – although the extent of the problems or how at risk the 298 passengers on board were has not yet been disclosed.'


 
And another Boeing 'whoopsie'. At least this one didn't cost any lives.

'Boeing's new Starliner capsule went off course after launch and will not dock with the International Space station during its first test flight. It was supposed to be a crucial dress rehearsal for next year's inaugural launch with astronauts..

'The blastoff from Cape Canaveral, Florida, on Friday went flawlessly as the Atlas V rocket lifted off with the Starliner capsule, but half an hour into the flight, Boeing reported that the capsule did not get into the right orbit to reach the space station. Officials said the spacecraft's timer didn't work properly and it burned up too much fuel to safely make the trip to the space station. The capsule is still in space and will be brought back to earth, landing in New Mexico as early as Sunday.'


 

Yokel

LE
I have had to hoover out hundreds of rivet stubs and other sheet metal worker's waste from aircraft in for a C-Check. It was common to find drill bits, small offcuts, the odd screwdriver or spanner and things dropped by the cabin fitters that ended up in the bowels of the aircraft. Inspectors werent doing their job and the bashers hated being called out to tidy up their mess.
WTF? So much for FOD awareness! How are those sort of practices compatible with things like AS9100? I have spent time working for an aerospace component supplier and constant checks and an audible trail, and legal responsibility were all accepted parts of the job.

All entrants to the Royal Navy, not just those who are going to fly or maintain aircraft, but anyone who is going to be a sailor in a ship with aircraft, get taught about things like FOD control and tool control. What excuse does an aerospace company have for not doing so?
 
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WTF? So much for FOD awareness! How are those sort of practices compatible with things like AS9100? I have spent time working for an aerospace component supplier and constant checks and an audible trail, and legal responsibility were all accepted parts of the job.

All entrants to the Royal Navy, not just those who are going to fly or maintain aircraft, but anyone who is going to be a sailor in a ship with aircraft, get taught about things like FOD control and tool control. What excuse does an aerospace company have for not doing so?
Only 8 months to register outrage; could be a Boeing corporate reaction.;)
 
...Boeing reported that the capsule did not get into the right orbit to reach the space station. Officials said the spacecraft's timer didn't work properly.....
My bold.

Not the famous "cheap Chinese watch"? Boeing taking cost-cutting to a new level?
 
The inevitable sacking.

'The world’s biggest aircraft manufacturer, Boeing, has dramatically fired its chief executive officer Dennis Muilenburg after a year of crisis and intense scrutiny for the company.

'Technically, Mr Muilenburg resigned. But in a statement described as “brutal” by a senior industry insider, Boeing made it clear he was forced out. “The board of directors decided that a change in leadership was necessary to restore confidence in the company moving forward as it works to repair relationships with regulators, customers and all other stakeholders,” it said. “Under the company’s new leadership, Boeing will operate with a renewed commitment to full transparency, including effective and proactive communication with the Federal Aviation Administration, other global regulators and its customers.”

'Mr Muilenburg’s resignation is effective immediately, ending a tenure that started in 2015. Boeing’s chairman David Calhoun will take over as CEO on January 13.'


 
The inevitable sacking.

'The world’s biggest aircraft manufacturer, Boeing, has dramatically fired its chief executive officer Dennis Muilenburg after a year of crisis and intense scrutiny for the company.

'Technically, Mr Muilenburg resigned. But in a statement described as “brutal” by a senior industry insider, Boeing made it clear he was forced out. “The board of directors decided that a change in leadership was necessary to restore confidence in the company moving forward as it works to repair relationships with regulators, customers and all other stakeholders,” it said. “Under the company’s new leadership, Boeing will operate with a renewed commitment to full transparency, including effective and proactive communication with the Federal Aviation Administration, other global regulators and its customers.”

'Mr Muilenburg’s resignation is effective immediately, ending a tenure that started in 2015. Boeing’s chairman David Calhoun will take over as CEO on January 13.'


it’s the American corporate way.

execute the King, draw a line, regroup and move on.
 
it’s the American corporate way.

execute the King, draw a line, regroup and move on.
I don’t think it will be enough on this occasion, they have been caught out badly and what is worse is that their engineers do not appear to be equal to the task.

YM
 
I don’t think it will be enough on this occasion, they have been caught out badly and what is worse is that their engineers do not appear to be equal to the task.

YM
I’m damned sure that the actual engineering effort is very much within their engineers‘ capability.

What is less clear is the task of rectifying the paperwork and verifying that each successive upgrade of the same basic (50+ yr old) design did not in any way compromise earlier work. It’s my understanding that this is the bit that the FAA are demanding before recertifying the Max. It’s a bit worrying though that say the -900 doesn’t seem to be affected, when it would have substantially similar certification exposure to the Max.

It’s a similar issue to the UK Chinook Mk3 debacle and to some extent the Nimrod Mk4. If you can’t PROVE it is safe, then it is not safe.
 

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