Norwegian Mass Murderer's Marksmanship and Ammunition

Andy_S

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
Coverage has been all over the whys of his spree, but is still a bit lacking on the whats and hows of it.

Even given that his targets were not shooting back, this man seems, given the number of persons killed, to have been a first-class shot. Has any info leaked out yet on his background in musketry?

Also, what type of ammunition was he using? I understand he was using a 5.56 auto or SLR ; AFAIK the round in question is not noted for its lethality but it proved pretty deadly in this case...

(Mods: This is a serious enquiry, but if this thread is in poor taste, feel free to kill it.)
 

Andy_S

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
Tropper:

Sure, saw the thread you referenced but it was all about his rifle and its additions, rather than his skill at arms and ammo.

Yes, got the email, cheers. No plans for another one now, but who knows. FYI, just landed after long trip, so finally getting back to grips with family, job, email, ARRSE....
 
D

Deleted 20555

Guest
#4
He was winging them at close range and then walking up to them and giving them head shots - it's hardly marksmanship.
 
#5
Tropper:

Sure, saw the thread you referenced but it was all about his rifle and its additions, rather than his skill at arms and ammo.

Yes, got the email, cheers. No plans for another one now, but who knows. FYI, just landed after long trip, so finally getting back to grips with family, job, email, ARRSE....
If you do do another book I wouldn't hang about, their dying like flies, LOL
 
#6
He is very plainly a crap shot.

73 out of 700, unarmed and defenceless in an hour and a half? Plus as good Euro-lefties they would only run away from violence rather than trying to fight back in any way. Luckily for the League of Milquetoast Nordic Youth, his shooting was as poor as his writing.
 
#7
Was also wondering how come a) he killed so few and b) no-one managed to jump him while he was changing mags. Apparently a few bods tried to reason with him, which must have taken some guts. Sadly, they just got added to the casualty list for their pains. Probably daft to speculate, but the same courage applied to a rush from all sides might have changed things.
 
#8
Was also wondering how come a) he killed so few and b) no-one managed to jump him while he was changing mags. Apparently a few bods tried to reason with him, which must have taken some guts. Sadly, they just got added to the casualty list for their pains. Probably daft to speculate, but the same courage applied to a rush from all sides might have changed things.
But this is exactly the thing with European moderate lefts: They assume that you can convince any person by using logical reasoning. this is exactly why e.g. my mother, a card carrying member of the German socialdemocrats is strictly against private ownership of weapons. As for her, violence is never the answer and any problem can be solved by discussion.
 
#9
It's hardly marksmanship to turkey shoot into groups of predominantly panic-stricken teenagers, in a confined area where the only options are (a) hide in what sparse cover there is, or (b) take your chances in the water. The photographs that have been released of Breivik indicate that he had an adolescent's fascination with 'guns', as evidenced by the amount of clobber he had on the Mini 14. That he was excused military service is telling. Despite his claims that he wanted to be taken alive, I think it's very indicative of Breivik's essential self-regarding cowardice that he didn't open fire on the police; certainly, he was tooled up enough to do so, and still had a fair amount of ammunition on him when arrested.

I find it interesting that of the 700 or so people on the island, a good proportion of whom were in their twenties and some of whom were adults, none of them seems to have tried to subdue Breivik; I'm not saying no-one tried to, but based on the details that have emerged (eyewitness testimonies) it seems that those who did interact with Breivik merely tried to 'reason' with him.

I may be slated for this, but I would suggest that this would not have been the case had this episode taken place in
Britain, Ireland, or the United States; I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that he would have been lynched. Unfortunately, in Norway and the wider Scandinavia, the majority of people are simply psychologically ill-equipped to respond effectively in such a situation. I noted from a news report yesterday that the families of those still missing are simply sitting at home waiting for news - I'm sorry, but that's just weird. The scene outside the court in Oslo was also strange - a large crowd of quiet people, a few of whom had the temerity to shout 'you devil Breivik' and were promptly lead away by police; other than that, it was as if they were waiting for a shop to open. Elsewhere, there'd have been a mob baying for blood, and the police would have found it difficult to stop them storming the building. I believe the reporter's turn of phrase was 'this is what passes for a lynch mob in Norway'.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
From all accounts Breivik was wearing a police uniform and calling to people to come towards him so he could protect them. If you could hear gunshots, but didn't know the source, your instinct would be to run towards the uniform. That simplified his problem as he was able to entice people closer before he shot them.

Churchill used to say we could only withstand a certain amount of fear before our minds blanked the rest off. Something similar must have happened on the island - with people frozen into inactivity. I think we'll find that when the full facts are known that a lot of his victims couldn't believe what was happening to them and didn't react in time. The survivors were the ones that legged it and hid.

Wordsmith
 
#11
It's hardly marksmanship to turkey shoot into groups of predominantly panic-stricken teenagers?
We use fig 12's mate to measure our marksmanship - they hardly move or panic! Good chioce of target to test his skill methinks, plus no pasting up afterwards!
 
D

Deleted 20555

Guest
#12
What rubbish - show me one school or college mass killing - of which there have been more than a few - where the children in America, or Germany or Britain - fought back and subdued the attacker - ****ing idiot thing to say.
 
#13
Oh anders Breivic liked many things.

Like playing warcraft and shooting tins.

Stripping rifles and oiling return springs

but because of many sins.

He'll never get a job in Butlin's.




Yes he was a shit shot,he had 90 minutes for crying out loud, his books crap as well, it was a bit of an extreme publicity stunt, could have just gave himself a fake review on Amazon.
 
#14
What rubbish - show me one school or college mass killing - of which there have been more than a few - where the children in America, or Germany or Britain - fought back and subdued the attacker - ****ing idiot thing to say.
Well, there was a 2002 incident in the States - at the Appalachian School of Law - where two students used their own firearms to subdue a gunman who had already killed until police arrived.
 
#15
Well, there was a 2002 incident in the States - at the Appalachian School of Law - where two students used their own firearms to subdue a gunman who had already killed until police arrived.
There was one in a Texas college as well. There've been several in more gun-friendly schools & colleges where students or faculty have retreived their own wpns & subdued the attacker.
 
#16
Despite his claims that he wanted to be taken alive, I think it's very indicative of Breivik's essential self-regarding cowardice that he didn't open fire on the police; certainly, he was tooled up enough to do so, and still had a fair amount of ammunition on him when arrested.
Why should he open fire on the police? He comitted his atrocity in essentially a consequence-free environment. He wasn't going to be shot in the act, and the worst that can happen is a 21yr sentence, out after 14, then the rest of his life with a nice new identity in a cabin somewhere enjoying Norgy social security for the rest of his life.

If you believe in your cause, however nutty, that consequence is trifling - less than 2 months per murder. It's essentially no consequence at all given the magnitude of the act and the believed motive.
 
#17
Well, there was a 2002 incident in the States - at the Appalachian School of Law - where two students used their own firearms to subdue a gunman who had already killed until police arrived.
I think you will find that in some of those cases the "Students" were in fact Law enforcement officers doing courses, not 14 year old school children
 
#18
What rubbish - show me one school or college mass killing - of which there have been more than a few - where the children in America, or Germany or Britain - fought back and subdued the attacker - ****ing idiot thing to say.
Dont know about school or college incidents, but didn't fellow passengers subdue the attempted shoe & underpants bombers, and I believe there are rumours that at on least one of the 9/11 planes passengers attempted to retake the plane! see here BBC NEWS | World | Americas | Passengers 'did not crash 9/11 plane'
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#19
There was also the wonderful example, quoted in the original Darwin Awards, where someone tried to hold up a gun shop in the US and was promptly helped into the hereafter by a volley from the customers.
 
#20
Dont know about school or college incidents, but didn't fellow passengers subdue the attempted shoe & underpants bombers, and I believe there are rumours that at on least one of the 9/11 planes passengers attempted to retake the plane! see here BBC NEWS | World | Americas | Passengers 'did not crash 9/11 plane'
I'd suggest it's significantly easier to jump on a bloke close up in a plane with a crowd to potentially back you up given they know they'll probably die if you don't succeed.

In the Norwegian incident the bloke had a weapon he could hit you with out to a few hundred meters and there was limited cover. Most likely trying to rush him would guarantee death, if a number rushed him you might succeed but pretty sure you couldn't organise it. You have to take into account most of the people around are terrified civvies who aren't used to violence and not used to using aggression.

Having said the above even if the people on island were all steely eyed dealers of death without weapons or at least very good cover for the approach, some surprise and quite a lot of luck I think you'd still be pretty****ed.
 

Similar threads

New Posts

Latest Threads

Top