Norwegian Frigate Collision, Trident Juncture

#42
Not a wind up, does insurance come in to it, obviously not covered in times of conflict but in this instance if its the tankers fault?
 
#44
Not a wind up, does insurance come in to it, obviously not covered in times of conflict but in this instance if its the tankers fault?
The tankers insurance will come into it. If the tanker is at fault then her insurers will be required to pay for the repairs to the other ship in proportion to their liability. It would be very unusual for either vessel to be found 100% to blame, unless, as I think has been suggested, one of them was at anchor.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#45
After the investigation I would guess that Ingstad will be stripped of all servicable parts. Transfering them too the 5th Frigate permanentely laid up at Haakonsvern. this was used for spare parts.Suddenly it has to become part of the NATO Orbat. Cheapest bidder may look good on the books, but when parts have to be bought from three different continents, the you have a problem. My company might be busy for the next few months?
She's going to be sold to Argentina at a pre-sunk premium.
 
#49
Now I'm not a navy man, but I do know a bit about sailing and from my small knowledge it's damned difficult to ram a vessel with the stern quarter and do that kind of damage.

I hope the Malteasers have a good insurance policy.

Notice also the conspiraloons kicking off -- "it was the Russians jamming the radar..."
 
#50
The final picture in the second tweet looks serious (to a layman like myself). I assume the ship's structure will be subject to stresses it was not intended to bear? Kaput, effectively? (genuine question - interested to know).
 
#52
The final picture in the second tweet looks serious (to a layman like myself). I assume the ship's structure will be subject to stresses it was not intended to bear? Kaput, effectively? (genuine question - interested to know).
Yeah its bolloxed after that. if they can keep it dry inside though they can save the kit inside to put into a new hull i suppose.

This is the trouble with having tiny navies, no resilience to cope with this sort of thing and we are not even at war
 
#55
That bloke reckons the Ruskies have been jamming GPS for weeks.
Interesting article on the subject here:

Detecting and Defeating GPS Jamming

View attachment 360958

View attachment 360957
Detecting and Defeating GPS Jamming
That's a most interesting article. Looking for evidence of reported jamming, I came across this 2017 Norwegian Govt report on Russian interference with GPS:
Russia Jamming GPS - Official Norwegian Report | RNTF
Apparently yesterday's collision took place in the dark - 4 a.m. I assume radar is watched however? Not sure whether close proximity of land affects radar returns?
Tankers leaving the oil terminal are reportedly accompanied by a pilot vessel and a tug, which likely accounts for the prompt moving of the frigate into shallow water.
 
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#56
When you're close enough to shore to see it through a pair of binoculars GPS is irrelevant.
I agree with that up to a point but this is a beast of a vessel and very new. Visibility, what the rostered watch could actually see from the bridge, experience with the vessel, radar antenna position and beam angles.






It seems to me that the bridge and to some extent the radar have blind spots. It would be informative to know what is done to circumvent these issues. CCTV is better than nothing but it needs to work.

1541724361951.png


That's a most interesting article. Looking for evidence of reported jamming, I came across this 2017 Norwegian Govt report on Russian interference with GPS:
Russia Jamming GPS - Official Norwegian Report | RNTF
Apparently yesterday's collision took place in the dark. I assume radar is watched however? Not sure whether close proximity of land affects radar returns?
Modern radars should be able to filter out clutter. The tanker should not have become so close that the Norwegian ship was within a radar blind spot.
Marine Radars and their Use in the Shipping Industry

 
#57
Exercise Trident Juncture ends badly when a Maltese Tanker collides with the Norwegian Frigate Helge Inglestad
Other reports suggest that it was the other way around...

Either way, tanker Sola TS is alongside for checks, HNoMS is beached to prevent total loss with engine spaces flooded.

Beached in a fjord usually means being on a subsea slope tending towards 70-80°.

Good luck.

Object lesson: during hostilities it's safer on a tanker than a warship.
 
#58
That's a most interesting article. Looking for evidence of reported jamming, I came across this 2017 Norwegian Govt report on Russian interference with GPS:
Russia Jamming GPS - Official Norwegian Report | RNTF
Apparently yesterday's collision took place in the dark - 4 a.m. I assume radar is watched however? Not sure whether close proximity of land affects radar returns?
Tankers leaving the oil terminal are reportedly accompanied by a pilot vessel and a tug, which likely accounts for the prompt moving of the frigate into shallow water.
Thanks for the link. Saved article for viewing later. Cheers.
 
#59
It would be informative to know what is done to circumvent these issues.
Stopping the entire bridge watch buggering off to the mess together would start. Not saying this was the case here (you'd have to be nuts to do that in an enclosed waterway) but I've been on plenty of vessels - mostly in the Med' - where supertankers and massive Maersk container vessels have been bearing down and no-one's been responding to Ch16 hails, mainly because (according to the experience of our own officers with prior service on type) their bridge is unmanned as it's meal time.

However, what I've read suggests the warship hit the tanker, not the other way around.
 
#60
Stopping the entire bridge watch buggering off to the mess together would start. Not saying this was the case here (you'd have to be nuts to do that in an enclosed waterway) but I've been on plenty of vessels - mostly in the Med' - where supertankers and massive Maersk container vessels have been bearing down and no-one's been responding to Ch16 hails, mainly because (according to the experience of our own officers with prior service on type) their bridge is unmanned as it's meal time.

However, what I've read suggests the warship hit the tanker, not the other way around.
Also foreign fishing vessels where the watch was asleep...

IIRC Norwegian investigators are quite thorough.
 

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