Northern Ireland - The British Connection?

[irlsgt]

Given that the ROI is a foreign country you would expect there to be some customs hurdles to overcome. What is outrageous is that it is taking extra time and costs to move things around inside our own country.

U.K. made a sovereign decision to leave a deal which meant they didn’t have to do this with 27 different foreign countries

It was the U.K. who suggested that this was the solution, the U.K. made a sovereign decision to go with it.

It was the U.K. who turned down a SPS deal that was offered by the EU that would have simplified the process.

It was U.K. Government that denied that it meant a border in the Irish Sea, including on the first morning of a border in the Irish Sea.

 

[MuddyOldEngineer]

You do know what bipartisan means? It's cross house in the Senate and Congress

Deja Vu all over again...

Call it what you want, its only Democrats clutching at straws to try to repair some of the damage their administration has caused.

 

[irlsgt]

I happen to support the GFA, and believe the NIP undermines it. The evidence for that is there and doesn't require me regurgitating it.

Did you support Brexit ?

Strands 2 & 3 of the GFA depend on the U.K., Ireland and NI all Co-operating on named areas that are possible through all being members of the EU

Brexit isn’t compatible with the GFA

That’s why the DUP is pro Brexit, they are anti-GFA (only major party that encouraged a no vote in 199 especially due to strands 2 & 3

 

[Graculus]

Call it what you want, its only Democrats clutching at straws to try to repair some of the damage their administration has caused.

FFS - that's the point - Republican Senators and Congressmen back it. It's why POTUS saying front or back of the queue is meaningless. The Senate "must" approve deals with two thirds votes, Congress approves FTAs

The support is bipartisan...

 

[MuddyOldEngineer]

Not at all. I agree the mass demonstration/rioting is unlikely in the near future. There are however more than a few dissident republicans who are greater in number, better organised, richer and better armed than the IRA of 1968. In fact they didn't even have a great deal of public support.

Quite simply a grievance was allowed to fester into resentment which developed into rebellion. A re-imposed hard border could be all it takes to create the required grievance. Putting it another way why do you think the UK, Ireland, the USA and the EU all oppose a hard border?

Money and influence. The spectre of a better-armed and organized dissident movement is wrong from so many perspectives. Your beliefs on that front are pure confirmation bias.
Unless you're referring to the numerous, very profitable schemes run by the same terrorists that benefited from the EU freedom of movement?

 

[askar-perisikan]

Why did the gov force the NIP through the house without a proper debate?

Everyone knows it was to get Brexit done, doesn't mean I think that was right though. However their UK majority gave them the right to do it, which I have to accept.

 

[twentyfirstoffoot]

Money and influence. The spectre of a better-armed and organized dissident movement from so many perspectives. Your beliefs on that front are pure confirmation bias.
Unless you're referring to the numerous, very profitable schemes run by the same terrorists that benefited from the EU freedom of movement?

I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land

 

[askar-perisikan]

Did you support Brexit ?

Strands 2 & 3 of the GFA depend on the U.K., Ireland and NI all Co-operating on named areas that are possible through all being members of the EU

Brexit isn’t compatible with the GFA

That’s why the DUP is pro Brexit, they are anti-GFA (only major party that encouraged a no vote in 199 especially due to strands 2 & 3

Being dependant on being members of the EU doesn't give the EU the right to dictate the relationship between UK, and RoI (with NI a consituant part of UK) does it.? While you can certainly argue that Brexit isn't compatible with the GFA, nor is the NIP, and 2 wrongs don't make a right. I'm not trying to be contrary, just trying to move this discussion along abit, because it's going round in circles - and I apologise if I'm only adding to that.

 

[Graculus]

Everyone knows it was to get Brexit done, doesn't mean I think that was right though. However their UK majority gave them the right to do it, which I have to accept.

Did you object at the time?

Still got to convince the US

 

[Graculus]

Being dependant on being members of the EU doesn't give the EU the right to dictate the relationship between UK, and RoI (with NI a consituant part of UK) does it.? While you can certainly argue that Brexit isn't compatible with the GFA, nor is the NIP, and 2 wrongs don't make a right. I'm not trying to be contrary, just trying to move this discussion along abit, because it's going round in circles - and I apologise if I'm only adding to that.

It's always going to go around in circles because the gov signed a deal with the NIP in it. They don't have a solution and drag this out whenever they want to get people excited,

 

[twentyfirstoffoot]

Being dependant on being members of the EU doesn't give the EU the right to dictate the relationship between UK, and RoI (with NI a consituant part of UK) does it.? While you can certainly argue that Brexit isn't compatible with the GFA, nor is the NIP, and 2 wrongs don't make a right. I'm not trying to be contrary, just trying to move this discussion along abit, because it's going round in circles - and I apologise if I'm only adding to that.

I think you misunderstand, the Brexit negotiations were not about the UK leaving the EU, that was a done deal. The negotiations were about the relationship between the UK and the EU post Brexit.

In that respect, the relationship between the UK and the RoI, part of the EU. is very much the business of the EU.

The reason the whole thing goes continually around in circles is no one is prepared to come up with a solution that works.

 

[MuddyOldEngineer]

I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land

If you think that dissidents can turn things back to the days of the troubles then you are delusional.

 

[Cabbage_man]

So what are they suggesting?

Good question!

I suspect they want ROI to put the infrastructure on their ports to keep the border open, and to revert to free movement of goods between the UK.

But I can understand why the Irish are not soon keen for this option as they wish to remain within the common market, and that solution effectively takes them out of it.

BJ’s govt. are using this for broader UK trade interests with the EU, not simply to help their friends in the DUP. As I said - most of the larger NI parties are accepting of the protocol if I understand correctly (i.e SF, Alliance, SDLP).

I suspect the DUP are pawns once again.

A solution will be found but I suspect not to the likening of the DUP.

 

[irlsgt]

The reason the whole thing goes continually around in circles is no one is prepared to come up with a solution that works.

The U.K. having suggested what is now the NIP, they should own it !

There is no solution that works, that’s why BREXIT is the problem for NI

Once the U.K. decided it was leaving the Customs Union, there has to be a border somewhere - NI/ROI border or border in the Irish Sea

The only other option is U.K. stay in the Customs Union

Even EEA means there has to be a border

 

[irlsgt]

If you think that dissidents can turn things back to the days of the troubles then you are delusional.

Currently yes and hopefully stays that way!

But Westminster is also talking withdrawing from Council of Europe and European Convention on Human Rights….. which the GFA explicitly says will apply in NI

 

[twentyfirstoffoot]

If you think that dissidents can turn things back to the days of the troubles then you are delusional.

Tell me, have you seen the massive intelligence installations in Palace Barracks and at one or two PSNI facilities across the Province?

From the MI5 website

Investigations into Northern Ireland-related terrorism are directed from MI5’s declared headquarters in Palace Barracks, just outside Belfast, where it works in close partnership with the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) and other agencies to tackle the continuing threat.

MI5 also works closely with its national security partner in the Republic of Ireland, the Crime and Security branch of An Garda Síochána (AGS).

The majority of current national security resource and attention is focused on dissident republicans as these groups pose the greatest threat.

 

[twentyfirstoffoot]

There is no solution that works, that’s why BREXIT is the problem for NI

Or is NI the problem?

 

[Cabbage_man]

Or is NI the problem?

Wouldn’t be the first time!

 

[exbleep]

Or is NI the problem?

Back to the old days of "Just when someone comes up with an answer to the Irish question, they change the bloody question".

 

[MuddyOldEngineer]

Tell me, have you seen the massive intelligence installations in Palace Barracks and at one or two PSNI facilities across the Province?

From the MI5 website

Investigations into Northern Ireland-related terrorism are directed from MI5’s declared headquarters in Palace Barracks, just outside Belfast, where it works in close partnership with the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) and other agencies to tackle the continuing threat.

MI5 also works closely with its national security partner in the Republic of Ireland, the Crime and Security branch of An Garda Síochána (AGS).

The majority of current national security resource and attention is focused on dissident republicans as these groups pose the greatest threat.

I know all about the new big shiny MI5 building at Palace. Besides 2 public police websites, what else have you got to back your notions of a return to the troubles by the dissidents?