Northern Ireland conflict airbrushed out of history.

#1
The Northern Ireland Veterans Association latest campaign

The poppy field of remembrance at Westminster Abbey contains many Regimental, Association and an overall conflict plot, listing all official campaigns that British service personnel have fallen in since WW2.

Every conflict from Aden to Afghan is listed and rightly so. Apart from one....The one that many of you on this site, it seems never served in as it didn't happen!

Northern Ireland is not included. To see the conflict plot showing ALL conflicts that British personnel have fallen in since WW2, but with no NI conflict listing is simply wrong. It is especially disrepectful to the approx 1600 ( edited ) personnel who fell in action or were killed whilst on ops protecting us from terrorism throughout that 30 year campaign.
30,000 were injured and 300,000 served.

The Northern Ireland Veterans Association is also excluded from the Associations plots yet even allied FOREIGN Associations are included and again I state rightly so but surely, our own must be included likewise.

The RBL state that these fallen are included in the Regimental plots but what if that Regiment doesn,t exist anymore? Many Regiments have gone west and widows, parents, sons and daughters of the fallen have no where to place their poppy tribute if that Regiment is not there. The only dedicated NI option they then have is NIVA!


After all, if NIVA can offer full Remembrance and Commemoration on behalf of the fallen, then so can the RBL who preach this as per their detailed core values.

We shall see.....

Have a look below;

http://www.nivets.org.uk/modules.ph...pic&t=13765&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25

NIVA Rep.
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#2
16000?? you sure about that? I thought it was closer to 1100?

Even so, they should be listed and honoured accordingly.
 
#3
This figure is the latest that NIVA lists. To try and recover on the nail figures is very difficult to say the least however, your figure of 1100 was reached after Government produced figures hit way below the belt as we all know they are loathe to apply killed on duty figures, to be included with killed by enemy action figures.

The roll of honour on the NIVA site include ALL casualties whether by enemy action, RTA on duty or simply by serving and dieing there. These personnel are included on the National Memorial and rightly so. We believe that is simply correct and just! NIVA's figures reflect this.
 
#4
:wink: agree with you supa duppa :lol: 8)
 
#5
banjotrooper said:
This figure is the latest that NIVA lists. To try and recover on the nail figures is very difficult to say the least however, your figure of 1100 was reached after Government produced figures hit way below the belt as we all know they are loathe to apply killed on duty figures, to be included with killed by enemy action figures.

The roll of honour on the NIVA site include ALL casualties whether by enemy action, RTA on duty or simply by serving and dieing there. These personnel are included on the National Memorial and rightly so. We believe that is simply correct and just! NIVA's figures reflect this.
BJT it doesn't surprise me, I suspect the NIVA has had it's collar felt by this so called Government! :x
After all it was Tony Bliar who betrayed us in the GFPA..................the CNUT! :x
 
#6
chrisg46 said:
16000?? you sure about that? I thought it was closer to 1100?

Even so, they should be listed and honoured accordingly.
They should be remembered. I think the Forces total is 765, Army at least. With RUC/PSNI etc this would rise significantly higher.

I think he meant 1600 not 16000.
 
#7
I recently went for a job interview for work abroad. Despite being well qualled, I was somewhat surprised when I didn't get the job.

The feedback said I lacked operational experience? I mentioned the fact that I served in NI as a Rfn several times. Their response was that NI wasn't a real war?

Now my regiment has gone, and the war that we fought, is confined to some dusty cupboard by government, lest it embarass them or irritate the yanks.

Fook em all.

Once a Rifleman always a Rifleman
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#8
Bubbles_Barker said:
chrisg46 said:
16000?? you sure about that? I thought it was closer to 1100?

Even so, they should be listed and honoured accordingly.
They should be remembered. I think the Forces total is 765, Army at least. With RUC/PSNI etc this would rise significantly higher.

I think he meant 1600 not 16000.
Makes more sense, i cant see any government being able to suppress that number of casualties!
 
#10
Whoops! I did indeed mean 1600. If you go to the NIVA web site, look up roll of honour for a break down.

Ref that old chestnut "Not a real war" 1972 saw 102 British troops killed in that single year alone. For the guys on this thread who served there throughout that period, they may have something to add to that employers statement I reckon...

Anyway, the numbers game changes nothing. One is far too many!

NIVA are about to release a press statement and will then react accordingly.

These guys will get their poppy tributes and the conflict plot will see the Northern Ireland conflict listed amongst all the others since WW2. :wink:
 
L

Lechies

Guest
#11
Sundog said:
I recently went for a job interview for work abroad. Despite being well qualled, I was somewhat surprised when I didn't get the job.

The feedback said I lacked operational experience? I mentioned the fact that I served in NI as a Rfn several times. Their response was that NI wasn't a real war?

Now my regiment has gone, and the war that we fought, is confined to some dusty cupboard by government, lest it embarass them or irritate the yanks.

Fook em all.

Once a Rifleman always a Rifleman

Now that's interesting, I take it that in 7 tours you served at least three years in the Province and that is considered as lack of Operational experience? Mind you, if you're trying to get into the current theatre in Private Security I would agree with any claim they would make that you've not experienced regarding current Operations, but to say you haven't enough Operational experience overall is nonsense.
I regularly lay a wreath for a friend of mine killed in Northern Ireland and don't really need an association to do it on my behalf.
 
#12
For those here interested in stats, here you go;

A break down provided by NIVA from the web site roll of honour.

Grim reading indeed!

Thanks CyclicM.

I was just about to stick my 2p worth in and email the following to Bill Kay but am holding off as requested.
I agree we need to get out facts right so here are some (Andy has them for the press release but I thought that everybody should know).
Some stats from the new Roll of Honour that I have been working on and is being prepared for website launch, numbers of names, service breakdown:
Royal Navy 8
Royal Marines 27
Army 1201
RAF 19
Police 323
Prison Service 28
Civilians 81*
Total 1687

* The civilian total is high due to the number of ex-UDR personnel murdered as a direct result of their ex-military background.

I am appalled by the response people have had from this Bill Kay, I would like to know who told him that Op Banner was "Mil aid to the civil power"! MACP is building a footbridge over the river in Workington, it is manning Green Goddesses when the fire brigade goes on strike, it is rescuing people from floods. It is not sustaining the above number of casualties during a 40 year Operation (I include this years casualties!). I feel so strongly about this that I am prepared to resign from both the RBL branches to which I belong.
Switches, if you need any help putting those crosses in next year let me know!!
 
#13
Building bridges is Military Aid to the Civilian Community. Op Banner was MACP.
 
#15
offog said:
I thought they built this memorial to include NI.
Not sure what your point is. Banner was debilitating for the Armed Forces and particularly the Army. If other conflicts are specifically remembered in London then this should also get recognition. For 30 years we (with the RUC and others) held the line for the government and the people of GB and NI. Op Banner should have its place.
 
#17
hi, I agree Northern Ireland has been forgotten about, there are loads of wounded, scattered all over the uk as a result of service over there, but now it is forgotten, it seems people, as with every conflict move on to the conflict of the moment, and it will happen to Iraq and Afghanistan, eventually they will be forgotten except by those who were there, sadly.
it does not get the recognition it deserves.
 

oldbaldy

LE
Moderator
#18
I was talking to some wives, CO's wife down, & explaining what my wife went through in 1972. The CO's wife sat like a goldfish!!!!!
 
#19
jimmyoc said:
hi, I agree Northern Ireland has been forgotten about, there are loads of wounded, scattered all over the uk as a result of service over there, but now it is forgotten, it seems people, as with every conflict move on to the conflict of the moment, and it will happen to Iraq and Afghanistan, eventually they will be forgotten except by those who were there, sadly.
it does not get the recognition it deserves.

Bang on jimmyoc. To paraphrase the old cliche "yesterdays conflict is today's chip paper." Who remembers the conflicts of yesteryear? apart from the two world wars of course. For most youngsters today, they seem as distant as the Napoleonic wars.

As for our version of the RBL, the RSA, they have just become places for civvies to buy cut price booze. In my one, not one of the executive have been any where near the services let alone in them. In fact, I have heard people in there suggest that we should get rid of all the "warlike paraphernalia" ie old weapons and medals etc, that decorate the place and give the place some kind of meaning. Times change.

The blokes that did Op Banner deserve their place in history along with all the others. From where I stood, it was a nasty business and I thank my lucky stars that I was demobbed before it kicked off.
 
#20
Lechies said:
Sundog said:
I recently went for a job interview for work abroad. Despite being well qualled, I was somewhat surprised when I didn't get the job.

The feedback said I lacked operational experience? I mentioned the fact that I served in NI as a Rfn several times. Their response was that NI wasn't a real war?

Now my regiment has gone, and the war that we fought, is confined to some dusty cupboard by government, lest it embarass them or irritate the yanks.

Fook em all.

Once a Rifleman always a Rifleman

Now that's interesting, I take it that in 7 tours you served at least three years in the Province and that is considered as lack of Operational experience? Mind you, if you're trying to get into the current theatre in Private Security I would agree with any claim they would make that you've not experienced regarding current Operations, but to say you haven't enough Operational experience overall is nonsense.
I regularly lay a wreath for a friend of mine killed in Northern Ireland and don't really need an association to do it on my behalf.
Yep, point taken. However, the job wasn't for a covert knife fighter in AFG. It was for a Paramedic to support a MARSEC operation. Much like stagging on for 3 months, and looking after routine and emergency medical needs.

I felt insulted by the comments that I lacked operational experience, as I know for a fact that most (even RM) applicants, hadn't done sea time.

I've also had people laugh and say that it wasn't a real war? Tell that to the families of the Rfn that were killed or maimed.

And with respect to the stats, I'll bet a pound to a pinch of shite that they don't take into account psycological injury and illness.

Even now, if a serviceman is killed in NI (remember the 2 sappers) they're repatriated as cargo - all very quiet and sneaky. What happened to their ramp service?

All that effort. All that sacrifice. All those lives.