Noble lord accustomed to privilege attacks nurses and women

#1
Lord Mancroft (who he?) has abused his position as a tory peer to make a cowardly attack on the nurses who tended him when he was in hospital for an intestinal infection (yes, he's not gutless it seems).

He said he was "lucky to be alive" following his stay at the Royal United Hospital, Bath, last August:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/7270565.stm

Obviously, his privileged circumstances have had the nasty effect of making him lose touch with reality.

Edited by Mod to remove irrelevant drivel
 
#2
What has Palestine got to do with the fact that he was in a dirty ward ?. Is he , because he's a lord, not allowed to voice his complaints. If you actually read the statement he made he criticised some nurses and praised others. He said the hospital was filthy and there have been people saying the same thing for years now, mainly because they are .;I think it's a good thing that someone who will be listened to has said something because if a normal member of the public says anythingg it's completely ignored.
 

Ex_ex

War Hero
#3
Anyone unfortunate enough (I include myself) to have been a patient in an NHS hospital will know what he said is true - they're fuc king lazy bitches.

It's the people who know fu ck-all because they've never been in hospital who are outraged, plus the middle classes with their BUPA insurance who wouldn't dream of going to an NHS hospital themselves.
 
#4
Regardless of the truth or otherwise of his allegations, he abused his position as a peer to voice them in the Lords during a debate. Some years ago, the Editor of the Daily Mail (I think?) used a full page in his paper to berate a traffic warden or policeman for some minor perceived injustice. Same principle.
 
#5
Sad but true.

I visited my elderly mother in hospital today. She had been trying to get a glass of water to drink for over an hour before we arrived. Lots of nurses with clipboards looking important just ignored her. Seems the basics are missing.

The ironic thing is she was a nurse herself and can't understand what's gone wrong. We can't really afford it but she will be going private as soon as possible.
 

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#6
Palestine has the square root of fuck all to do with the story you're dripping about. Mind you, I'd expect nothing less of someone with your staggering lack of integrity:

frenchperson said:
....and it's goodbye from me. It's been very interesting, a good diversion for a couple of years. I've talked to some great characters, and had abuse from a few absolute knobheads - but that's life. Ultimately, it's ended in a bad way, because I'm now under the firm impression that my freedom of speech is under threat - by the very people who attack New Labour for doing the same!!!!

Fcuk Gordon Brown.

Long live Chavez and Viva Socialism!!!

FP

Still here?


He said some of the nurses were less than hygenic: Possibly true.

They talked about nights out and shagging within earshot of patients: More than likely.

Said he was lucky to be alive after a stay in a NHS hospital: Seems truthful to me.


Quite how this is an 'abuse of position' is questionable. However since you don't have an honourable bone in your body, may I cordially invite you to do one?
 
#7
YES, and Lord or not - it's all too true. Not all nurses are as described - a point I think he made - but, my experiences have been identical: lying in filthy ward, with chest drains/ catheter etc, and nurses talking over me about who they'd shagged/ were planning to shag, how pissed they'd been last night/ how hung over today etc etc...

It's all very well those in charge bleating on about "appropriate channels & procedures for complaining" blah, blah, blah... but -
1. You're naked (or as good as), esp if in high dependency...
2. You're anxious/ fearful, in pain/ discomfort...
3. You're probably drugged/ confused & disorientated...
4. You're generally in a very dependent state, unsure of what's really going on, and certainly not in a position to start complaining!

Later, when your head is clearer, and you start to recall things more coherently you're generally only too glad to be getting the hell out, and if you do have the temerity to complain... well, you can be damned sure you'll get nothing but patronising management speak from some "suit".

The point is that professional nurses should not behave as described, but a significant minority do, and nothing is done about it.

Whiskeybreath - WTF are you on about?! The man's a member of Parliament (albeit unelected), and it's perfectly proper - indeed his duty - to make such comment on a matter of public interest of which he's had recent direct personal experience.
 
#8
I think the title of your thread is both sensationilst and untrue.

His priviliged position meant that somebody gave him 'column inches' and as a result future patients at RUH Bath might get the treatment that they deserve (and have paid for) from the NHS.

the_Bat
 
#9
Over the years the RUH has been criticised for the low standards of cleanliness.

A good friend of mine (A retired nurse) has been an inpatient on several occasions and was appalled at the low standards.

IIRC there was a consultant who was an in patient and he too complained.

And as for nurses talking over the patients- Spot on Milord- you do forget who might be listening.- but the topics are no different to any workplace chat so it aint fair to tar every nurse based on loose chit chat

Poor work standards?
That is sadly my impression of some of todays nurses but I also know there are some very good ones so,

He had a bad time and spoke up.
Good but I hope that if he was satisfied he would also have said so!
 
#10
frenchperson said:
Lord Mancroft (who he?) has abused his position as a tory peer to make a cowardly attack on the nurses who tended him when he was in hospital for an intestinal infection (yes, he's not gutless it seems).

He said he was "lucky to be alive" following his stay at the Royal United Hospital, Bath, last August:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/7270565.stm

Obviously, his privileged circumstances have had the nasty effect of making him lose touch with reality. I suggest he has a good look around the world, Palestine say, to see what it's really like to have your life threatened on a regular basis.

Come the revolution, there's a strong piece of rope and a 15 metre lighting column on the M25 that's waiting for a certain individual.
You post some utter crap - because of Palestine, people shouldn't expect basic standards to be maintained?

FP, are you one those grey haired blokes that hang around NUS conferences/demos etc with the Socialist Students because no one else will take them seriously?
 
#11
It's true,

Too mant fat arrsed nurses standing about scoffing hob nobs rather than sorting the place out...

My local place is knee deep in shite and all they do is stand (mit hob nobs) and point their f ucking porky fingers at each other

Idle c unts
 
#12
Having just lost a close relative, who was reportedly at a palliative care facility, I would aplaud this view, but would add the caveat that it's the exception rather than the norm. But in reallity it should not happen at all.

Two points in question:

1. My Dad was in a hospice, and my two sisters were attending to him, when the consultant and physician were having a bedside conversation about dad. The discussion in essence, was about what would ultimately cause his death. The female doctor said to the Consultant, in front of my dad and his two daughters, 'Well ultimately we will find out the cause of death post mortem'.

Not something you need to hear as the terminally ill patient, nor as a daughter.

2. Dad sleep was at a premium, he finally managed to close his eyes and some nurses came in to change a bed, recently 'vacated' by another terminally ill patient. She found chocolates left by his inevitable absence, and shrieked 'ooh gooodie'.

I challenged the nurse, asking her 'do you mind'. She walked up to me, within one foot from my face and said, 'so you want me to shut up then'?

I replied in the positive, politely. That nurse never spoke to us, or my dad for that matter after that. I know you can't tar everyone with the same brush, but whilst for the most part the experience was positive, I could of kicked off a couple of times. My dad loved tea, but did not have the strength to hold a cup, so they would make him a cuppa and put it on a tray out of reach. I might be a little sensitive, (Cause it was my dad), I did complain politely, to ensure he did not suffer for our disgust.

I know that you cannot remain 100% compassionate 100% of the time, but this was/is meant to be a palliative care facility.

If this sort of enterprise falls below the mark, then a 'normal facility' can do exactly the same.
 
#13
Wessex_Man said:
YES, and Lord or not - it's all too true. Not all nurses are as described - a point I think he made - but, my experiences have been identical: lying in filthy ward, with chest drains/ catheter etc, and nurses talking over me about who they'd shagged/ were planning to shag, how pissed they'd been last night/ how hung over today etc etc...

It's all very well those in charge bleating on about "appropriate channels & procedures for complaining" blah, blah, blah... but -
1. You're naked (or as good as), esp if in high dependency...
2. You're anxious/ fearful, in pain/ discomfort...
3. You're probably drugged/ confused & disorientated...
4. You're generally in a very dependent state, unsure of what's really going on, and certainly not in a position to start complaining!

Later, when your head is clearer, and you start to recall things more coherently you're generally only too glad to be getting the hell out, and if you do have the temerity to complain... well, you can be damned sure you'll get nothing but patronising management speak from some "suit".

The point is that professional nurses should not behave as described, but a significant minority do, and nothing is done about it.

Whiskeybreath - WTF are you on about?! The man's a member of Parliament (albeit unelected), and it's perfectly proper - indeed his duty - to make such comment on a matter of public interest of which he's had recent direct personal experience.
I'm not so sure about that. He recited a list of petty personal points (together with more serious ones about hygeine) with no credible evidence to back up his claims, but as the Telegraph report stated:
Lord Mancroft's unease seemed to be as much about the manner of the nurses as their professional competence. He described their preoccupation with sex and drinking as "an accurate reflection of many young women in Britain today".
If I'd been one of those (identifiable) nurses I would be deeply unhappy about being publicly, and possibly unjustifiably, excoriated like that. If he had objections to those more serious points, there is a channel through which he, like all of us, can go to complain, and if he felt that the Lords was the place to do it, he could have done it in the accepted manner, when a Minister could have answered him. However, it looks very like he used his position - and the wrong occasion - to give vent to a personal grievance, rather than for the benefit of the NHS-using public, and that's what grates. Believe me, if a Labour peer had done it under a Tory administration, I'd be screaming blue murder, but I expect the same standards of all members of that house....
 

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#14
Could you point to anything he said that was untruthful? I include the quote below in that.

He described their preoccupation with sex and drinking as "an accurate reflection of many young women in Britain today".
 

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#16
He's possibly used the magic we call 'sight'?
 
#17
Fine. Here's his speech, by the way:

My Lords, I too am grateful to my noble friend Lady Eccles of Moulton for giving us this opportunity to debate this subject. It is the first time that I have ever spoken in a debate of this sort, because the amount that I know about running hospitals and healthcare could be put into a nutshell, leaving ample room for the nut. I have always been lucky to enjoy very good health until last year. I was taken ill shortly after the Recess started, and in the latter half of last year and at the beginning of this year I became an expert in being cared for in a variety of different hospitals, so I shall now give the House my observations as the person at the other end.

When I was taken ill, I was taken to an accident and emergency department in a hospital not in London but in the West Country. I can tell your Lordships only that it is a miracle that I am still alive. It was exactly as the noble Baroness described the hospital down in Maidstone in Kent. I will not tell your Lordships which hospital I was in, but the wards were filthy. Underneath the bed next to me was a piece of dirty cotton wool, and there it remained for seven days; the ward was never cleaned. It was a gastroenterology ward, with lots of people with very unpleasant infectious diseases. The ward, the tables, the beds and the bathrooms were not cleaned. I was extremely infectious at that time and no precautions were taken with me at all. The staff were furious when my wife wanted my bed cleaned when it clearly needed cleaning. I was just lying there, a pathetic person. It was appalling.

The nurses, who probably are the most important people in this complex area, were what I would describe as an accurate reflection of many young women in Britain today. What do I mean by that? I shall now break your Lordships' rules and read the next bit, because I thought very hard before I wrote it. The nurses who looked after me—not all of them; we should never generalise and there were one or two wonderful ones—were mostly grubby, with dirty fingernails and hair. They were slipshod, lazy and, worst of all, drunken and promiscuous. How do I know that? If you are a patient, lying in a bed and being nursed from either side, the nurses talk across you as if you are not there. I know exactly what they got up to the night before. I know how much they drank and what they were planning to do the next night, and it was pretty horrifying.

My bed was next door to the nurses' station, so you could see how the whole place was being run. Actually, you could not: I have seen lots of things being run, but after a week, I could not tell you who was in charge. I had absolutely no idea who was telling who to do what. My view is that nobody was telling anybody.

The man opposite me was dying. I imagine he died two or three days after I left. I do not know what he was dying of because he was not doing a lot of talking. But I do know that he virtually died alone. The nurses thought that he was a nuisance. They changed his bottle, gave him his pills, occasionally fed him and propped him up. But basically this man died alone in a British hospital in the 21st century, and I had to watch him do it, which was pretty unpleasant.

I was saved from that and I have a happy ending to this story. My wife very kindly kidnapped me and put me in an ambulance, on the advice of my London consultant. I was brought up to London to the Chelsea and Westminster Hospital, which is where the story changes. I went to the Thomas Macaulay ward, which was completely incredible. The nurses, of every nationality, size, shape and colour, were wonderful. I was discharged from the country hospital. When I arrived in London I had two operations in 24 hours. I am quite certain—as were all the staff, although they would not say it—that if I had not had them I would have died. The hospital in London was wonderful. The nurses were marvellous. I do not know how, but it worked like clockwork. It was spotlessly clean. It was everything that it should be or could be anywhere.

But some things apply to both places. I have queued in many departments and met many consultants over the past six months. It is perfectly clear that there is far too much paper. Everywhere is swamped with paper. Everyone asks the same questions and fills in forms. Every department is covered in completely pointless paper. Last week, I saw one of my consultants. As I was leaving, he said, "By the way, what do you weigh"? I said, "What on earth do you mean, what do I weigh? Why do you want to know"? He said, "I do not want to know, but I've got to tick the box on this form or they will make you come for another appointment and weigh you. I run an outside clinic twice a week and 60 of my patients twice a week are weighed. I don't care what they weigh. They don't care what they weigh. But the form says that we have to weigh them". How ridiculous is that?

Dispensing drugs is really simple. You and I call it retailing. Every week when I get my drugs, I watch them doing it and it takes 40 minutes. Over the road, Waitrose, the supermarket, is doing exactly the same thing really well, so why cannot these people do it? It is a shambles. It takes 40 minutes to get a drug which you can see sitting on the shelf. Why is that? It is because they have never been trained.

My last point is about the clerical staff, who probably are the linchpin that holds together these tiny satellites—the departments and areas of a big service in a large hospital. These people make the appointments and make sure that everyone is in the right place at the right time. They are clearly, too, completely untrained. I talked about it with one of my consultants who said that one of the problems is that the junior clerical staff in the National Health Service are desperately keen to help, very well meaning, completely useless and totally untrained. In the past year, I have observed them in 30 or 40 departments and I have come to the conclusion that that is true. The clerical staff are absolutely useless, but very nice.

Of course, this is a difficult situation. There will always be good and bad. In Britain at the moment there is very little that is good enough and too much that is too bad. This Government came in 10 years ago to sort this situation out. It has not been sorted out. It is internationally embarrassing and humiliating that a country of this size and wealth should produce a service which is so horrible.
 
#19
How did he 'abuse his position'?

He was speaking in a debate on the quality of patient care, and chose to comment on his own personal experience. He may have been injudicious in his choice of words, but given how often we criticise politicians for (a) not speaking their minds and (b) speaking about things of which they have no personal experience, it seems a bit rich to denigrate him for speaking in a House of Lords debate on a relevant subject.

If you read the text from Hansard - http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200708/ldhansrd/text/80228-0011.htm - Column 825, you'll see he had reservations about what he said, but felt that it was important enough for him to try to express his views. He may have been unwise in the implicit generalisations in his remarks, but I'd suggest that there is a world of difference between a newspaper editor using his newspaper to denigrate an individual and a member of the House of Lords speaking about his own experiences in a relevant debate.

Also bear in mind that despite his privileged background (which includes the usual Tory things of being a Master of Foxhounds and the like), he founded the Addiction Recovery Foundation (he was somewhat unfortunately described as being "the most knowledgeable parliamentarian on drugs" in a newspaper, which wasn't quite what the journo meant...), and chairs the Drug and Alcohol Foundation, neither of which quite fit the bill for being areas of interest of a supposedly reactionary, privileged twit as FP wishes to suggest.

Had he been a Labour peer elevated to the peerage after a career as, say, a union official and had spoken out in the same way, would there have been such a fuss? About his words, perhaps, but about his background? I doubt it.

EDIT - was in the process of writing this while WB was posting his thoughts, hence the overlap.
 
#20
In fairness to the chap, he seems to have tried to give a reasoned account of his own experience.

Some of his points, are not totally unknown to the general public. (We all know of "Naughty Nurse" stories)
 

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