No Vote = No Tax

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Jip Travolta, Apr 17, 2003.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1.  
    Armed forces personel have no right to actively take part in politics anyway, so would you forfeit your right to vote in return for a tax-free income?

    ------------------------------

    Consider the following:

    Benefits to recruiting and retention?

    Feasability?

    Opt In/Out?

    ------------------------------

    Discuss! ;)
     
     
  2. I'm a civvy but here's my view anyway ...Id rather throw myself under the Kings Horse (artillery ;D) than give up the vote :mad:
    You already follow orders of the government whatever your own views, but to sacrifice your individual and  private rights as off duty citizens turns you into non-people!
    Scary scary road to go down that one ???
     
  3. Nice thought, considering that during my time in, I doubt whether my old man actually ever used my proxy vote, but, it’ll never happen.

    There is no way HMG is ever, ever going to set a precedence for a select, but numerically large, group of the population to opt out of voting purely for financial gain.

    One question that they will throw is “where do you draw the line?” E.g., what about the TA, do you give them voting rights during normal times, tax free status but no voting rights during call up?

    Then, how about reservists? Surely they, as persons who can be called upon to rejoin the colours, should also get a cut?

    You will also get the argument that this would create a 2 tier military. I assume that you would want to make this voluntary (after all, you could not insist that people are forced to lose voting rights just because they join up), so, you end up with 2 levels of squaddy. Those with no voting rights but loads of cash, those with voting rights and no cash. Situation: Nightmare.

    How long would you allow people to opt out for? Maybe for the four years that the last party they voted for are in power? Relinquish tax free status to be able to vote again when they don’t like the current powers that be?

    Or maybe you could say “Nope, elect for tax free status and that’s it”. Welcome to the European Court of Human Rights when every Tom, Dick and Harry that realises that they could sue when they don’t like it anymore (contracts signed and sealed relinquishing a basic free world human right would be worthless) jumps on the bandwagon.

    HMG will not touch this with a seven million mile barge pole, regardless of anything that the mil could constructively put forward, at the end of the day, it would be seen as a 200 year step backwards. The rhetoric would be simplified to end up as the following

    The rich (those with secondary incomes who don’t care about tax free status) get to vote; the poor get paid off and then have no say.

    The fact that we are talking about a very small percentage of the population that this would apply to would be completely and utterly irrelevant in the eyes of HMG.

    I much prefer the argument that serving HM forces should be given tax free status, with TA, reservists etc being given it during deployments. However, there’s more chance of me becoming PM than this ever happening.

    If this ever got through, I, personally, will pay the entire British Army’s tax bill until I die
     
  4. I have my views, but if ORG is prepared to underwrite the bill that scuppers my argument..let him pay...only joking chaps..serious answer later in the topic..
     
  5. woopert

    woopert LE Moderator

    You have a vote, and once every 4 years you get the chance to decide on who you want to see in power. The upside is, if enough people in the country agree with you, the party you don't wish to see in power doesn't get elected.

    Let's take this givernment. At the next general election I get the opportunity to say "no" by putting my X in the box of any party but this one.

    If, by declining the right to vote in favour of tax breaks, you no longer get a say in who gets into power, you no longer have a voice. In a way i am sure that Labour would love to do this, it hates the armed forces and would be assured that those in the forces who would vote against them now couldn't. You could end up with a government, like this one, that despises the forces and the onyl option you have to voice your democratic right to vote them out is to leave the armed forces.

    Alson, the tax breaks received would quickly be eaten away by increased rent on MQs and barracks, and decreased allowances, and after all of this you can't vote out of power the government that introduced the policy.
     
  6. As it stands, and where I live, I definitely would chuck my vote in for no tax.

    The reasons?

    First, this is a staunch and safe Labour seat, and anybody else who tries is doomed to failure. The voters round here if Blair announced he was Maggie Thatchers love child with a donkey, and that he is following mummys orders with policy, they would vote Labour. It wouldn't matter if a fecking donkey stood on the rostrum for election, if it wore a red rosette they would vote for it. If Maggioe Thatcher stood as a Labour candidate, they would vote for her. It wouldn't matter what Blair did, anything, whatever he fecking pleased, they would vote for him because he is Labour leader.

    My vote, living in amongst these sad rose tinted glasses wearing bunch of ******* is a useless vote, so fecking right I'd give it up for a few quid because round here it's worth feck all. :mad:

    And don't get me started on that other bunch the Liberals. This is absolutely true. My missus this morning got a Liberal flyer through the post telling her if she is a Labour supporter not to vote Conservative. It didn't mention Liberals or their policies once in that flyer, it is a fecking disgrace and a shame for democracy in this country. Blair started it and he is to blame.
     
  7. All current parties are equally worthless.  Therefore, I won't waste my valuable time voting for (or against) any of them*.

    Not convinced...gimme the cash ;) (Because we're worth it.....)


    *It's my right
     
  8. Exactly, you already have the right not to vote.

    You really think that HMG will pay you to exercise that right?
     
  9. Not a sniff.

    More chance of me becoming the first black man on Jupiter. ;D

    Futile campaign, nice thought though
     
  10. What would happen if this was passed by this Government and then they fail to get re-elected?

    Don't think this one is feasable in any shape or form, after all we are an equal opportunities country, so can't give to one lot and not others, that would NEVER happen here, would it?
     
  11. Absolutely. Just hope that no one is actually going to be stupid enough to put their name against it.

    Potentially the most embarrasing thing ever ;D I was at a Chamber of Commerce meeting a couple of days ago in Walsall, where I put this to the Rt Hon Bruce George MP (very quietly I hasten to add), he looked at me like I had just stepped off a spaceship and then laughed, before spouting off several reasons as to why this would never happen, all of which have been covered on here;D

    I would suggest that you look up his name, after all, he may be one of the guys you need to convince.
     
  12. I can see your point - to an extent.

    .....I just think that, despite supposedly up-beat recruiting/retention figures, it'll be increasingly very hard in the future to convince young folk to join up without a realistic and very desirable incentive; one which sets us apart from other, more mundane sections of society.... After all, it wouldn't cost much (comparatively) to introduce this.

    Maybe after the coup!!! ;)

    :)
     
  13. I don't see a campaign like this doing us any favours, we would end up being tarred with the same brush as the firemen.

    I think we need to look at more realistic reasons for retention and recruitment.

    Or how about reducing the Army to a size were we recruit people who want to be in and stay in  for the right reasons and reduce our commitments overseas. Protect our own interests before starting on everyone elses.

    We have been considered the best and most proffesional army since the clock started ticking, will this continue if campaigns such as this are exposed?
     
  14. Eagle mate, I'm with you all the way on the sentiment, but I don't see the need to tag the "No Vote" thing on. This would be the immediate ammunition needed to throw this back in your collective faces.

    The tax free status would indeed be an excellent incentive for recruitment and retention, but, it is in effect a pay rise and that is how it will be deflected by HMG.

    They will argue that if there is no money in the kitty to fund a service wide salary increase, then there definitely isn't enough money in the kitty to deprive the treasury of the millions they would lose in tax.

    Whilst I sincerely wish that this would / could happen, I fear large portions of "egg on face" would be served if this was ever pushed in a public forum.