no surprise

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Grumblegrunt, Sep 10, 2012.

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  1. Grumblegrunt

    Grumblegrunt LE Book Reviewer

  2. Plenty of greased palms I'm sure.
     
  3. Sell it to China
     
  4. I believe she was sold to the Turkish scrap dealer for £3 million, less than half the sum offered by the diving consortium. If that is the case then Jarrod would seem to be thinking along the right lines.

    Do we really have no firms capable of doing the job willing to make an offer?
     
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  5. The Royal Navy - Fitted for, but not with, ships.
     
  6. Recycling (scrapping in old money) doesnt really go on in the UK anymore due to the H&S legislation. Take a look at the issue of the ghost ships and hartlepool to get an idea of the challenges people face to scrap vessels here now.
    Probably the right decision though - we have to remember that we are not privy to all the facts, and its possible that the Turks were offerring hard cash now and disposal of the vessel. The divers may have not had all the cash, or somewhere to store her, or abilty to properly prepare her withour running out of finance. There will be a lot of spinning on this issue though.
     
  7. I imagine Ward is spinning so fast he'll reach orbital velocity.;P
     
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  8. Fair point, jim30, but when the amount of money the government wastes, pisses up the wall, gives away, or just squanders, I would not be at all suprised to find some sort of deal where the government is paying towrds the Turkish costs. Plus its managed to stay afloat for two years, another couple wouldn't hurt.

    I wonder if any civil servants and their, hem hem, secretaries have gone on fact finding tours round Constantinople in the last few years? All expenses covered, of course.
     
  9. Bouillabaisse

    Bouillabaisse LE Book Reviewer

    I'm not quite sure what the incipient outrage is about? MOD announces some years ago that the ships would go. They went partly because they're old and expensive to run. The MOD have sold them off to the best bidder withing a whole host of rules and regulations designed to get best value for MOD whilst fulfilling their environmental obligations. And like many, many ships before them they've gone for scrap. Not the first, won't be the last.
     
  10. Chef - are you making allegations of corruption against the disposal sales agency (which happens to be a military & civilian organisation)?

    I'm depressed that once again the 'the wonderful military cannot possibly do anything wrong as we are saintly beings immune to the evil touch of corruption / malpractise / incompetence' view is on clear display. The fact that you think only CS are open to corrupt practises is depressing.

    Yes this is a bite. Its a bite because frankly I am tired of people thinking it acceptable to make some bloody serious allegations against a body of people who for the most part try to do the best possible job. I suspect people would bite if someone accussed their Regiment or Capbadge of similar practise, and I'm afraid I'm doing the same thing. How about putting up the evidence or amending your post?
     
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  11. Like sending troops to Iraq in Snatch instead of a more suitable vehicle?

    Eurofighter over budgeted

    BOWMAN over budgeted - and some people still dont know how to use it

    PCS - why?

    Shit boots - most if not all soldiers bought their own to go on tour with

    Not enough CBA for Iraq

    SA80 - had to be redesigned by HK to make the weapon system that - ie a functional weapon

    FRES - HAHAHA

    CVRT 2 - come on a spartan with a turret, when are you bringing back bulldog with turrets? or is that FRES?

    I think the evidence he stated - a dive site company were going to buy her for 6 million and turn her to an artificial reef?
     
  12. And unfortunately, like it or not, the military and the military CoC were intimately involved in most of the above. There are undoubtedly some f8cking wasters in the MoD CS (as in the wider CS). There are also a large number of people in the MoD CS doing the best they can for defence, often despite the system.

    Almost certainly, the decision about the "reefing" option was informed by a dark blue expressing disgust at the navy's flagship being "scuttled", leading to a verdict of "inappropriate" against that option. Never mind the perfectly valid projectmanagement risks Jim mentions.


    As far as scrapping in the UK is concerned, it can be done and has been done (quietly) in Liverpool with Intrepid. Unfortunately there is a particularly virulent strain of Friends of the Earth in the North-East, which makes high-profile recyclings very time-consuming to actually execute. Which is a shame as Able UK seem to have done the ships they've managed to get permission for very well.

    However, Leyel have a proven track record in recycling with high percentages of recycled materials, plus being far enough away to avoid frequent pictorial updates.
     
  13. Bouillabaisse

    Bouillabaisse LE Book Reviewer

    Clever MOD - she's not going to be preserved. She's going to be offered to preservation societies. After all, we can't support her under MOD budgets as there's none available. And no organisation can afford to take on the preservation of a ship that size and there's no real historical interest so there will be no takers and MOD can scrap her, with much regret that she couldn't be saved. Hands clean, Sharkey Ward out manouevred.

    And before anyone asks, I don't think she's worth preserving. When it comes to it it's just a large pile of metal and asbestos. The heart and soul of a ship, the "Her," is in the crew and the continuous habitation over the life of a commission. The personality is in the people and when the people go the personality goes. You see it in ships that go into extended refit - pre-refit it has one life, one feel; post reft it's completely different. No continuity.
     
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  14. Here's the actual written statement from the MoD.
    http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-vote-office/September_2012/10-09-12/1.DEFENCE-Future-of-Royal-Navy-Invincible.pdf

    It is heartening that at least some sort of plan is being canvassed long before she decommissions. As the "inventor" of carrier airpower, the aspiration ought to be something like this - Explore a City at Sea on this San Diego Navy Ship | USS Midway Aircraft Carrier Museum San Diego - which is fantastic. The US have another FOUR carrier museums, each with an Essex-class carrier as the centrepiece.

    However, finding a berth and then getting a credible business plan are not insignificant hurdles. In all honesty, either a berth on the Thames (another IWM out-station?) or in HMNB Portsmouth (difficult to fit in the right place) are likely to be the only commercially viable locations.