No spikka da Inglish, innit?

#2
Absolutely nothing military about this topic, of course, but thought it might be amusing to kick a few perches while strolling through the NAAFI...
 
#4
tearsbeforebedtime said:
"In some areas, more than 70% of four to 11-year-olds do not have English as their first language."

Would this include parts of Wales where some schools teach only in Welsh?
Wish I could speak Welsh, just back from Tenerife and need a new way to tell Scratch Card holders to fcuk off. I think Welsh would really p1ss em off
 
#5
Ya tyebya lyooblyoo

may work quite well.............


.............if he's Russian and gay!! :twisted:


Alternatively, try 'Cnycha bant' ('ch' as in Jockanese Loch) - Welsh for 'fcuk off'
 
#6
I wonder how many of the English living in France and Spain speak the native tongue at all let alone as a second language...
 
#7
Flashman07 said:
I wonder how many of the English living in France and Spain speak the native tongue at all let alone as a second language...
Probably enough to not be a pain in the ar$e for French schools

Edited to add: or Spanish schools.

And again for totally mong syntax :oops:
 
#8
One in seven doesn't speak English as a first language. Right. Although it doesn't say that they don't speak English at all. And on the other hand, the other six do speak English as a first language. So in a class of 30, there'll be five who don't speak English as a first language. Where's the problem?

The Swiss don't seem to find it difficult. When I lived there, I had to speak French for newspapers and magazines, Italian to do buy groceries and (Swiss) German for most other things. Any outrage at the situation was strangely absent.

Mountains and molehills maybe?

MsG
 
#9
tearsbeforebedtime said:
"In some areas, more than 70% of four to 11-year-olds do not have English as their first language."

Would this include parts of Wales where some schools teach only in Welsh?
most, if not all of wales will have some schools that teach in the medium of welsh

which is funny as fuck when sproglet un(pronounced een) comes back from meithrin(nursery) rabbiting on in welsh & asking to watch teledu cymraeg

luckily sproglet dau(pronounced die) is only just sleeping through the nights & is limited to googooing at random moments - usually when i've just mounted the missus to try and make sproglet tri(prounced tree)
 
#10
What about the North East of England? They haven't even got Christianity up there yet,let alone English.
 
#11
Random_Task said:
What about the North East of England? They haven't even got Christianity up there yet,let alone English.
Admittedly we are having a few problems but here in Durham the druids are working on itand Keegan is the omnipresent one on Tyneside innit!
 
#12
figures must surely be higher in Landan.
 
#13
Bugsy said:
One in seven doesn't speak English as a first language. Right. Although it doesn't say that they don't speak English at all. And on the other hand, the other six do speak English as a first language. So in a class of 30, there'll be five who don't speak English as a first language. Where's the problem?

The Swiss don't seem to find it difficult. When I lived there, I had to speak French for newspapers and magazines, Italian to do buy groceries and (Swiss) German for most other things. Any outrage at the situation was strangely absent.

Mountains and molehills maybe?

MsG
It depends... I went to international schools in the far-east and every now and then we'd get some new kids who somehow got through admissions speaking barely any English.

Two things could happen:

1. The teacher could would slow the class down for the benefit of the newbies. This can work alright depending on how bright/dim the newbies are but it generally throws off the pace of the course and some of the other students who do speak English get annoyed at having to grind along in low gear.

2. The teacher would largely maintain the pace for the English speaking students and take extra time out of class to bring the newbies up to speed and probably get one of the English teachers to give them intensive extra-curricular attention. Then again they would be expected to do this in a fee paying school. In one of the schools I went to there were so many applicants with sub-par English that they created a whole Intensive English stream and they all did time there before being released into the mainstream classes.

Probably not that feasible in most state schools in the UK though, so it remains a pain in the buttocks for all concerned.

Unless you just plonk them at the back of the class and pretend they're not there.

I wouldn't expect there to be outrage in Switzerland over the use of its three official languages. The issue is about foreign kids not being able to speak the language being taught in British Schools, not whatever language is used in shops (which, in the UK incidentally is almost universally English).
 
#14
cupoftea said:
Two things could happen:

1. The teacher could would slow the class down for the benefit of the newbies. This can work alright depending on how bright/dim the newbies are but it generally throws off the pace of the course and some of the other students who do speak English get annoyed at having to grind along in low gear.
This happened back in my school back in '82.
Teacher advised my parents (& I imagine others) to find a new school as she could see more immigrants joining the school, & the standard of education going downhill.
So we moved 5 miles away, & I lost all my old friends (5 miles is a lot when you're 7yrs old).
At the new school there was only one asian kid in the entire school.

Not saying I agree with, just saying what happened.
 
#15
cupoftea said:
I wouldn't expect there to be outrage in Switzerland over the use of its three official languages. The issue is about foreign kids not being able to speak the language being taught in British Schools, not whatever language is used in shops (which, in the UK incidentally is almost universally English).
That's a fair on, Cuppa, although they actually have four official languages in Switzerland.

The point is that it doesn't say that these kids can't speak English, just that English isn't their first language. Having used foreign languages in the corresponding countries for well over half my life, I'm very much aware of the demands made.

But I've also had the experience that a good (Swiss) mucker of mine hauled his two kids (seven and 11) off to a well-paid IT job in Ireland, and when they came back after six months for a visit, they were both totally fluent (although I was actually the only one whose English they really understood, because I was the only one with a Mick accent). Kids learn languages so quickly, it's frightening, and even if the kids in question are initially a little short of the mark linguistically, it'll only be a temporary problem.

And my calculations in my first post were a little off. There'd only be three or four kids not speaking English as a native language in a class of 30. That doesn't appear to me to pose a grave problem.

MsG
 
#16
Not hard to resolve....



No one leaves the fifth form with out at least a G in English.

They can learn and/speak any language they want aswell, but no English no go.

(same with maths, civices and PE :) , and no benefits or dole payable till they have a "High School Education Certificate" showing satisfactory passes in English, Maths, Civics and PE)
 
#17
Bugsy said:
That's a fair on, Cuppa, although they actually have four official languages in Switzerland.

The point is that it doesn't say that these kids can't speak English, just that English isn't their first language. Having used foreign languages in the corresponding countries for well over half my life, I'm very much aware of the demands made.

But I've also had the experience that a good (Swiss) mucker of mine hauled his two kids (seven and 11) off to a well-paid IT job in Ireland, and when they came back after six months for a visit, they were both totally fluent (although I was actually the only one whose English they really understood, because I was the only one with a Mick accent). Kids learn languages so quickly, it's frightening, and even if the kids in question are initially a little short of the mark linguistically, it'll only be a temporary problem.

And my calculations in my first post were a little off. There'd only be three or four kids not speaking English as a native language in a class of 30. That doesn't appear to me to pose a grave problem.

MsG
Oh yeah forgot about Romansh! :wink:

Speaking English as a second language ranges from speaking-it-almost-as-well-as-your-mother-tongue to barely-enough-to-get-by. Yeah kids do tend to pick things up quickly, and 4 out of 30 is hardly a crisis I agree but no way is the spread going to be that even. There will be schools with only 1 linguistically challenged kid out of 100 and bully for them but other schools will have classes with a ratio that will prove more of a challenge for the teacher (and in effect the other students). I also suspect that the worse affected (probably urban) schools there is a fairly steady stream of kids with sub-par English - no sooner have they managed to sort out one lot, another lot turn up who need sorting out.

Its easy for it to sound like making mountains out of molehills, but I think the figures belie the true impact. The ability to absorb a new language probably starts dropping off significantly at just the time the learning starts getting more indepth and crucial for future prospects ie. the teens. If there is enough critical mass then the standard of education can go downhill really fast, especially if the teachers are fraught with 'putting out fires' in schools with bad discipline (again, often in urban areas with high levels of immigration).

This isn't about 'sending them back' and blaming it on immigration - whatever the views are on that, the non-native-English speaker kids are here now and its fete acompli. The government could probably do more to help round off the square peg for it to fit in a round hole, linguistically speaking, and thus avoid compromising the education of the indigenous kids. It doesn't seem to be an endemic problem, so they could probably nip it in the bud.... but then I may as well start writing letters to Santa again... :frustrated: sigh! Who am I kidding...

Edited for grammar!!! :oops:
 
#18
Our kids all go to the local schools here - the eldest has just started high school. When we got here initially they knew zero French but within 3 months of schooling they were fluent when speaking to their friends. It took another 6 months for them to be working at the same level as their class mates though.
Now when we are out and about you can see people thinking "Bless, look at those kids looking after their mong parents!" Although I can read French and deal with all the family bureaucracy on a daily basis and hubby works in an all French environment speaking it is a real problem for us. No-one wants to sound like a retarded 5 year old unless that is their leit motif :wink:
 
#19
I'ts more than than 1:7 have you ever tried speaking to the chav generation?
I once had to get rid of a college work exp student on the grounds he couldn't speak.
 
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