No PFT Pass Required for Bounty?

#1
Read with amazement yesterday in a letter from CRF's empire that TA don't need to pass a PFT to qualify for their bounty. What utter bollards! I thought we were supposed to be 'One Army'? So now its okay to mince around at weekends, attend the all important cocktail party circuit (that's the TA version of MS by the way) and swan around wearing the same uniform as those of us in the Regular Army do but they don't need to be able to pass the fitness test we have to. There must have been some senior TA types complaining at high levels (probably at a cocktail party) about having to wheeze round a run and do some press-ups and sit-ups. Frankly, if the TA want to be classed as One Army, the least they could do is meet the same basic standards of fitness the Regular Army has to.
 
G

Goku

Guest
#3
We needed to pass each one of our MATTs (and that includes fitness) to qualify for our bounty.

We’re still in the first year of the new system, so unless the powers that be have lowered the required standards without even giving it a chance (which I can’t really see happening) I would suggest that you’re mistaken.
 
#4
pied_piper said:
Read with amazement yesterday in a letter from CRF's empire that TA don't need to pass a PFT to qualify for their bounty. What utter bollards! I thought we were supposed to be 'One Army'? So now its okay to mince around at weekends, attend the all important cocktail party circuit (that's the TA version of MS by the way) and swan around wearing the same uniform as those of us in the Regular Army do but they don't need to be able to pass the fitness test we have to. There must have been some senior TA types complaining at high levels (probably at a cocktail party) about having to wheeze round a run and do some press-ups and sit-ups. Frankly, if the TA want to be classed as One Army, the least they could do is meet the same basic standards of fitness the Regular Army has to.
Don't worry about it - some spanner suggested that you can't fail a TA career course if you fail the PFT (even if it is an entry standard requirement) because it wouldn't withstand equality laws because women have to 'do less' than men and that is 'not fair'.
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#5
There will always (well, at least for the next few years) be those who, for various reasons, are not capable of passing any sort of fitness test, yet who are still deemed worthy of a Bounty by their CO - and it is the CO who has the ultimate say here.

This is acknowledged at the higher levels of the TA - and, reluctantly, by the Regular Army.

Perhaps this is one of the hangovers of the 'old' TA way of life that is being removed gradually by the new mobilisation culture? We can only hope so!
 
#6
OUTRAGEOUS!
 
#7
Just before I left my last post was SPSI and I was told that the TA have a "bedding in period" to allow them to introduce the new physical standards on the new MATTs as far as Bounty Qualification goes.

However for mobilisation they will be required to meet the same standards as their regular counterparts ie 8 mile CFT
 
#8
barbs said:
Don't worry about it - some spanner suggested that you can't fail a TA career course if you fail the PFT (even if it is an entry standard requirement) because it wouldn't withstand equality laws because women have to 'do less' than men and that is 'not fair'.
There is an interesting point here, one that perhaps some of our legal eagle/ HR friends may be able to answer.

On the introduction of MATTs and linking the award of bounty to the passing of MATTs, for the first time (I think) with the PFT, we have linked a financial reward to a gender specific test. Is this legal? Or is it a can of worms the MOD have only just spotted?

I'm sure the discussion about the pass levels for male/female must have been done somehwere else?
 
#9
pied_piper said:
Frankly, if the TA want to be classed as One Army, the least they could do is meet the same basic standards of fitness the Regular Army has to.
Well, I look forward to the TA achieving the same high standards as the Regular Army in fitness. Whats the fitness rate for the Regs at the moment; 99 or 100%? I think not. What financial disincentive is there for Regulars?
 
#10
So you really want one army do you ?

You want to lose your tax free bounty, get deployed at the drop of a hat and have a nasty man shoot at you ?

Instead of picking and choosing when you want to work, taking off whatever length of time you want between parades and slobbing around like fat ******* ? Getting paid home to duty, two weeks hols in Germany and etc
 
#11
polar69 said:
get deployed at the drop of a hat
I work in a tri-service team (all regs apart from me) and I'm the one who has the least notice for mobilisation.
 
#12
pied_piper said:
Read with amazement yesterday in a letter from CRF's empire that TA don't need to pass a PFT to qualify for their bounty.
Can you post the file ref?

msr
 
#13
Blyth_spirit said:
On the introduction of MATTs and linking the award of bounty to the passing of MATTs, for the first time (I think) with the PFT, we have linked a financial reward to a gender specific test. Is this legal? Or is it a can of worms the MOD have only just spotted?

I'm sure the discussion about the pass levels for male/female must have been done somehwere else?
That's 'equality' for you. I could never figure out why a 40 year old man had to achieve a higher standard fitness than an 18 year old woman. It seems to me that as long as women aren't 'worse' off equality is fine. If they are at an advantage and you mention the 'E' word you are told to shut up.
 
#15
polar69 said:
So you really want one army do you ?

You want to lose your tax free bounty, get deployed at the drop of a hat and have a nasty man shoot at you ?

Instead of picking and choosing when you want to work, taking off whatever length of time you want between parades and slobbing around like fat ******* ? Getting paid home to duty, two weeks hols in Germany and etc
Polar, I'm one of a growing number of Regular Army types watching the TA trying to hype the mantra of One Army yet continuing to place all sorts of special requirements and caveats and getting pretty hacked off by it all. I too get deployed at the drop of a hat, have nasty men shoot at me, loose money (the TA get reimbursed for loss of earnings), still pay council tax et al and oh by the way we did'nt get a bounty until the new Op Tour allowance came in. I don't get to choose when I turn up, don't slob around, etc etc. The TA need to accept the hard truth that if they want to live under the banner of One Army they had better start by at least making the effort to meet the fitness standard. I accept not every Regular can pass the PFT but then we don't get a bounty every year which is supposed to reward attendace and training standards.
 
#17
pied_piper said:
Polar, I'm one of a growing number of Regular Army types watching the TA trying to hype the mantra of One Army yet continuing to place all sorts of special requirements and caveats and getting pretty hacked off by it all. I too get deployed at the drop of a hat, have nasty men shoot at me, loose money (the TA get reimbursed for loss of earnings), still pay council tax et al and oh by the way we did'nt get a bounty until the new Op Tour allowance came in. I don't get to choose when I turn up, don't slob around, etc etc. The TA need to accept the hard truth that if they want to live under the banner of One Army they had better start by at least making the effort to meet the fitness standard. I accept not every Regular can pass the PFT but then we don't get a bounty every year which is supposed to reward attendace and training standards.
I'm sorry but how is this the fault of your average TA Tom giving his time every week for something he or she's proud to be a part of? I and a great number of my colleagues, in between swanning about on the cocktail circuit, put a great deal of effort into reaching and exceeding a standard that is handed down to us. To many of us MATT level 2 is only the beginning of the level of training we want to achieve and, in my experience, this is increasingly the trend.

Pull your head out of your arrse and accept that for every whinging STAB you meet there are 5 others trying damned hard to reach a higher standard, if only so we can spin on our heels and say to our regular colleagues that we may never be as 'good' as you, but we're trying and you can at least respect us for that.

Christ, I've just had to put up with an ARAB SAA instructor who spent 4 days telling us to give up and not bother, simply because we'll never be able to be as good as the regs and calling us 'F*cking craphat STAB bastards' every time someone asked what seemed to be a perfectly reasonable question or failed to hear what he said.
It is with some smug satisfaction I can report that, despite this slavish cnut of a human-being constantly shitting on us, 3/4 of those present achieved MATT Level 1 with a little over half of those achieving Marksman, all thanks to the time and effort of those instructors that thought we were worth the effort and those TA soldiers who took time out of their lives, many on unpaid leave and in addition to their minimum commitment, because they wanted to improve themselves.

STAB B*stard, my arrse.
 
#18
I've never even broke into a sweat passing the TA fitness requirments, I don't care if they change them to that of the regs, I'll p!ss them too!

Why you regulars soldiers make out phys in the regular army is greuling is beyond me, as I've met many an unfit regular soldier , ok so the TA as a whole is bound to be unfit compared to the regular army because the fact is most people TA and reg will do the bare minimum required. But how is that the fault of those who push themselves hard.

Biffs are universal, you lot have your fair share, judge people as individuals.
 
#19
Chalky said:
pied_piper said:
Polar, I'm one of a growing number of Regular Army types watching the TA trying to hype the mantra of One Army yet continuing to place all sorts of special requirements and caveats and getting pretty hacked off by it all. I too get deployed at the drop of a hat, have nasty men shoot at me, loose money (the TA get reimbursed for loss of earnings), still pay council tax et al and oh by the way we did'nt get a bounty until the new Op Tour allowance came in. I don't get to choose when I turn up, don't slob around, etc etc. The TA need to accept the hard truth that if they want to live under the banner of One Army they had better start by at least making the effort to meet the fitness standard. I accept not every Regular can pass the PFT but then we don't get a bounty every year which is supposed to reward attendace and training standards.
I'm sorry but how is this the fault of your average TA Tom giving his time every week for something he or she's proud to be a part of? I and a great number of my colleagues, in between swanning about on the cocktail circuit, put a great deal of effort into reaching and exceeding a standard that is handed down to us. To many of us MATT level 2 is only the beginning of the level of training we want to achieve and, in my experience, this is increasingly the trend.

Pull your head out of your arrse and accept that for every whinging STAB you meet there are 5 others trying damned hard to reach a higher standard, if only so we can spin on our heels and say to our regular colleagues that we may never be as 'good' as you, but we're trying and you can at least respect us for that.

Christ, I've just had to put up with an ARAB SAA instructor who spent 4 days telling us to give up and not bother, simply because we'll never be able to be as good as the regs and calling us 'F*cking craphat STAB bastards' every time someone asked what seemed to be a perfectly reasonable question or failed to hear what he said.
It is with some smug satisfaction I can report that, despite this slavish cnut of a human-being constantly shitting on us, 3/4 of those present achieved MATT Level 1 with a little over half of those achieving Marksman, all thanks to the time and effort of those instructors that thought we were worth the effort and those TA soldiers who took time out of their lives, many on unpaid leave and in addition to their minimum commitment, because they wanted to improve themselves.
STAB B*stard, my arrse.
Have to laugh because thats what you joined up for you knob end, that is your full time job, you get paid to go to the gym were as the ta have to pay to go to the gym. Where is the incentive?
 
#20
It seems some regs don't realise TA are often doing 7 day weeks, we don't get any slack time between a weekend without sleep and work on Monday morning. We do our full time jobs, have a night a week where you're essentially working until 2130, no afternoons off for sport, or early finishes on a friday, and have to fit our fitness training in around that. Most regs I've met are initially quite disparaging (sp?) but when they realise how much effort TA personnel put in on top of their day job, and how little our pay works out at (£2/hr anyone?) they usually develop some respect.
In my last unit they dropped the PFT on us without warning, and I'd say most people passed it.
 

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