No father required

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by eve1962, Aug 15, 2005.

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  1. Is it just me or is this just not right? OK, I can (just about but not really) accept two people of the same sex wanting to be together .... but when will they realise two women together CANNOT make a baby. Should they just accept this or should they be allowed to bring children into the world that will never know their father? I believe the future generations will see the results that IVF will have .... and I fear not good results at all.
  2. Nothing but selfishness. However, quite a few of them have been successful in obtaining sperm donors. Makes you think though, would it be better for a child to grow up in that sort of unnatural environment where at least it is loved and cared for by 'parents' who provide for it, be brought up in some council skip by two (ir three) Chav, who view it as nothing more than a source of income and that it's value in 'benefits' was probably its only saving grace.
  3. Very good food for thought, Biscuit. Actually, I am pondering the breakdown of the traditional family unit anyway. How many parents stay together these days? The divorce/separation rate amongst my students' parents is rather alarmingly high and I would not be surprised if the younger parents are the more likely separation and subsequent growing up with only one parent at hand (or a new one) become.

    I do not have any figures at hand and this is a completely unscientific and merely anecdotal observation, but is it just me who has noticed the decline of the traditional parental M/F unit that stays together?
  4. I'm torn on this issue.

    My conservative side says man and women good (just as nature intended) women and women or man and man bad. After all it is unnatural as there is no byproduct (ie the child) from the said union, IMHO.

    On the otherhand if the children they were raising are otherwise unwanted and would only be left in some home or some dump then surely it is better that they are getting the love and attention they require.

    To produce a child using various techniques from scientific to a turkey baster is a bit wrong, IMHO. They have become genetic dead ends for a reason, why not adopt a child who needs a loving environment?

    I will go back to my ponderings.

    The only thing I could think of that is bad, is if the parents try to turn the child in to a homo or in some way put this side of things on them. But then straight people have done similar I don't doubt, (and lets not go anywhere near Fred and Rose West!!!).

    If the couple in question, promise or similar, to be a long term couple and they also are judged suitable enough that they wont ram their personal sexual views down the throat of the kid, and will raise the child to the best of their ability then good luck. Many straights can't manage this.

    But what of society in general. I can't see too many people taking to kindly to this sort of arrangement.
  5. Hummm, a tricky and touchy subject.
    Should Gays or Lesbians be allowed/encouraged to have children, either through artificial insemination or adoption?

    I would have to say no.
    It hasn’t been proven if homosexuality is a result of nature or nurture, or even a combination of the two.

    To actively encourage homosexuals to raise children would be to actively encourage children to become gay.
    These people are perfectly harmless but simply put, their perverse sexuality is a handicap which comes with social stigma and the inability to have children naturally.

    I wouldn’t wish that kind of handicap on a child anymore than I would wish one to be born with downs syndrome.
  6. A child is the product, or at least should be, of a stable relationship of a male and female who have taken the decision to raise their own offspring. It is not the a 'human right' as some of these groups seem to think or a pet project to show how 'normal' these same sex couples are.
  7. How much research has actually been done on the percentage of children of homosexual parents turning homosexual? Hm?

    Until I see proof, numbers, research, evidence and evaluation (long term) I am not judging the issue. At all. Until then, I'd say better to be raised by a stable couple of whatever gender than producing the uneducated, unintelligent & money-sponging Chavscum that appears to rule Britain.
  8. Goku your post edited. As you say, it's a tricky and touchy subject . Treat it as such and argue your point without resorting to pointless invective.

  9. I think many straight couples shouldn't be allowed to have children myself - and while I can't help but feel better a gay couple who can be good parents than some chavs it is not fair on the child. There is enough teasing and bullying to cope with whilst growing up without the added weirdness of having two mummies or daddies. Why do so many people see having a child as a human right rather than a privilege? It is extremely selfish to have a child unles a secure loving couple are able to cope both emotionally and financially. Sadly these days there are far too many pressures on parents.
  10. Just lobbing a few googlies in.

    Green_Slime wrote

    But is a same sex couple abnormal or unnatural?

    In the wild, dog packs contain Alfas who mate, and the rest who don't, this is done for breed, better genes = better children. In our society maybe those who don't wish to mate are drawn to each other for that same purpose. It is not necesarily wrong. It could be just the emotional responses of the person. We all pick a "mate" to settle down with. As has been suggested we don't know what makes someone gay.

    Could it be an emotional response triggered by a desire to remove ones self from the gene pool?

    The current climate in society would make it very hard for any child brought up in such a way to shake the "stigma". It is perhaps a little selfish of the couples to decide that their child can be the vangaurd.

    As for nature or nurture, if a Gay child can be produced and nurtured by a straight couple, there is surely no reason why a straight child couldn't be the product of a Gay coupling, (including 2 x same sex parents and the absent doner)
  11. have to agree with poppy on this one. How does a kid explain to his/her peers that the father is anonymous or that he/she doesn't have a father. I could not give a toss who fancies who but you are not going to tell me that the child will grow up in a "normal" family atmosphere no matter how good the parenting and love that they get. And. no, I am NOT homophobic.
  12. It exists among among many animal species.

    Might have a problem demonstrating this in human societies. To quote the song "Been around the world and seen that only stupid people are breeding". Been to a council estate recently?

    Is this really so different to how attitudes are conditioned in the first place? Would people have a differentreaction to homosexuality if they hadn't been conditioned to think of it as perverse?

    Good point. Plenty of 'traditional' couples have fcuked up their kids.
  13. Fraulein, using your post as a starting point for my ramblings, I understand why you state the need for empirical evidence over sweeping statements of opinion, but no child should be used as a social experiment in order for society to decide 10 years hence that actually, we got it wrong. I’m not able to put forward an alternative way for society to ‘monitor’ the effect a single-sex parental couple would have on the emotional and social development of a child, in that all people and therefore couples, are unique, but we shouldn’t play with the lives of children just to find out. On the other hand, as others have pointed out, there are plenty of children being brought up in less than perfect environments and we, society, live with it.

    My sister had a friend during senior school whose mother had left her father for a woman. Sarah was around 12 when it happened and was distraught the break-up of her parent’s marriage, ashamed that her mother wasn’t ‘normal’ and in addition had to suffer the usual teenage angst we all go through being exacerbated by feelings of being different. Granted this happened towards the end of the 1980s and society has become a lot more accepting and diverse over the past 15 years, but I still don’t feel entirely comfortable with the idea of children being brought up by same sex couples. I have the same feelings of unease about single men & women adopting. Accepted, there are many single parent families in the world, but that tends to happen by accident not design.

    My head is going round in circles about this because, if we judge that a stable and loving same-sex relationship is a less secure environment in which to raise a child than that of an abusive heterosexual couple, then that’s a very bizarre state of affairs. Points of discussion regarding whether homosexuals of either sex are perverts, more likely to abuse or to influence whether a child becomes a homosexual (the nature or nurture argument) are merely subjective because there are plenty of heterosexual couples who could be judged as perverted and who abuse their children. As for the ‘nurture’ argument, if that’s the case how do heterosexual couples raise homosexual children?

    I’m going to stop here because my head is hurting & I can’t decide whether I’m for or against this. In short I’d love for all children to have a safe, secure and idyllic childhood, but that’s never going to be the case… :(
  14. for my two pence worth...

    who cares man. the kid has a more than likely chance of growing up in a loving careing environment, if its a lass it will no doubt hate men and munch carpet....

    if its a lad then it will become a hairdresser....

    As for chavs having kids....i think they should have to apply for a licence...

    you have to have police checks and clearance to work with kids but two chavs and a nova can make one.

  15. It is not possible for a homosexual couple to have a child together. It is possible for one member of that couple to have a child using genetic material from a member of the opposite sex which, IMHO, gives the child one parent, one "step-parent" and a whole load of questions (and probably neuroses) about the origin of the other half of its genes.

    The gay "parents" do not each have an equal input into the child and, as such, the family unit cannot be as cohesive as within conventional marriage.

    And before anyone jumps up and down, I'm fully aware that there are many dysfunctional hetero families. The point is that if you're trying to achieve something you should at least try to ensure that you've got some chance of success.