Nitrogen and Tyres

Discussion in 'The NAAFI Bar' started by Robbeaus, Oct 31, 2011.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. I saw this thread earlier but cant post this comment as i can't find the original thread [for which i would be greatfull if somebody does find it they could move this thread to that area..
    The reason why Nitrogen is so good for your tyre fill is because its boiling point is -195. This means that the tyre retains its heat better and helps your tyre warm up. Those who are GP1 fans will know what i mean when they see the cars on the warm up lap swerving from side to side.
    Warm tyres give your car [in the absence of winter tyres something ex BOAR troopies will be familer with] that extra grip on the road in winter conditions. Which is why in the UK you find your self behind wankers and tossers driving really slowly so that they don't skid, when in fact they should be driving at some speed to get some warmth into their tyres. Winter Tyres are made of a softer compound which has the same effect as adding nitrogen to the tyre.
     
  2. It's in the cars,bikes and afv's forum.

    Real men use sarin gas in their tyres.
     
  3. F1 0n ice? I'd pay to see that.More exciting than the boring endless parade of cars we were treated to in India.
     
  4. I seriously hope you don't drive anywhere near me!

    The chance of getting any heat into your tyres in winter conditions is absolutely fuck-all. Driving faster on summer tyres in those conditions just makes you more likely to crash.


    And filling summer tyres with nitrogen in no way makes them anything like winter tyres.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. And the AA agree with Mattb,so that's good enough for me.
     
  6. I was told the reason for nitrogen was for increased stability. The F1 linkage is due to a huge amount of the suspension travel is in the tyres. High performance road cars do use nitrogen but for this increased stability, but not to give a winter tyre effect. Winter tyres are made out of a rubber compound that is designed to work at lower tempretures or for all year tyres (as opposed to summer or winter tyres), a wider range of tempretures.
     
  7. Yep, pretty much.

    Nitrogen fill is used because it changes pressure more predictably than air as heat increases - meaning that in cars where the tyres are expected to get very hot it will make a small difference. So if you're chasing lap times, or maybe driving a 599 at 200mph on the autobahn, then go for it - but it's going to make fuck all difference in a diesel Mondeo in traffic, in Slough.
     
  8. Trans-sane

    Trans-sane LE Book Reviewer

    Well it appears Robbeaus is as much of an interlectual pygmy in scientific and engineering matters as he is in ecconomics. Having a (marginally) lower boiling point than regular air mixture will have zero effect on a tyres ability to warm up durring use. Given that regular air is 79% N2, around 19% O2 and the marjoity of the remained is atomoic Argon then the mass difference from regular air (thus meaning more mass needs to be heated up) is so small you'd need the sort of lab equipment they use at CERN to detect the change in mass. Frankly it would be a bigger difference having part-worn tyres or ones under inflated.

    Warm tyres do grip better, but with the compounds used in regular road tyres this is again a negligable. F1 tyres last 30-40 laps on the hard compound. My raod tyres (bought as part-worns cos I was skint at the time) have done 11,000 miles are are probably good for another 5,000 at least. Given ambient temperatures across the NW of England I doubt the tyre temp has gone above 45-50 centigrade and have probably spent most of that time much colder. The reason people skid less in Sumer isn't down to the tyres being warmer Robs. Its down to the roads being dry and ice free...

    F1 cars and aircraft use nitorgen in tyres because its chemically inert (well short of some major energy input) and therefore when safety is required (cos these applications puch the envelope) you want to reduce the fire risks. Regular road tyres are never stressed enough or under enough pressure to be a major fire hazzrd with pressurised air.

    In conclusion Robs is either a snake-oil saleman making money from nitrogen sales to tyre fitters or he's a gulible mong thats fallen for the sales pitch.

    PS: Nitrogen doesn't change pressure more predictably than regular dry air under the conditions it will operate under anywhere on the face of the earth (at least not where the driver of the vehicle can operate under anyway). Gas pressure is a function of the mass of the gass (and thus the no. of gas molecules) x the system energy (temperature of the gas which is directly related to particle kinetics) over the volume of the container the gas is stored in. I can't remember the exact formula this second (cos its been YEARS since I taught it) and I aint looking it up cos I'm packing to get on a bloody plane in a few hours. But only two components of air will have a marked effect on pressure for earth-normal temperatures. Carbon dioxide and water vapour. Water vapour shouldn't be in the tyre anyway and CO2 only starts to deposite (cos it don't form a liquid except at very high pressure) at -78 degrees AT ONE ATMOSPHERE OF PRESSURE. In a tyre this temperature would have to be even lower. And CO2 makes up less than 0.04% by volume of atmospheric gas. QED predicable pressure changes=load of bollox
     
  9. Never once in 40 years as a keen driver have I read such a load of crap. Speed up in winter conditions to warm up your tyres?
    I hope they haven't let you loose near any weaponry.
     
  10. Police Officer - Evening Stirling, your car is it sir?
    Me - Yes orificer
    PC - Why were you doing 80 in a 30mph zone in such dangerous conditions?
    Me - I was just warming my tyres up to get a better grip, due to them being filled with nitrogen.
    PC - Oh that's perfectly reasonable sir, on you go sorry to have troubled you.
    Me - Thanks very much, good day to you. * Vroom vroom screech smash .......Ooops!!!!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Right. I've said it before (in the last thread) and I'll say it again. The difference between tyres filled with nitrogen and tyres filled with air is the amount of moisture that they contain, (a standard bottle of nitrogen has a moisture content of about 10ppm, air has something of the order of 100 times that amount). As the tyre temperature increases, any moisture in the gas in the tyre will cause the pressure in the tyre to increase - remove the moisture, and the tyre pressure is more stable over the temperature range (this is important for F1 cars for the reasons given by HueyRat above).

    It's got nothing to do with fire risks.

    Also, if you really want to put nitrogen in your tyres, you would need to purge them first to remove as much moisture as possible, or fit them to the rims in a nitrogen environment. If someone offers to fill them with nitrogen at a cost to you, ask them how they intend to purge the tyres, and watch them squirm.
     
  12. Sorry i did not say that, if you care to read correctly what i did say.
     
  13. Nope i didn't say or imply that either
     
  14. So for the tympanums who cant read i will rephrase what i said
    If you fill you tyres with Nitrogen, that will keep the 'air' in the tyre warmer than 02 and thus keep the tyre warmer to assist in winter driving conditions, thus they will offer some dispensation to those who wish to drive safely on the road at the lower speeds you have to drive at due to those lesser motorists who have no idea what they are doing anyway. You could also use Helium which north sea divers use to keep their suits warm when they dive
    The 280 million or so who face much worse winter conditions than the UK and who live in the EU can't be that wrong can they?

    By they way lads, this is a forum, a tinternet forum, its a nice forum and it relates to something that we all hold dear to ourselfs but at the end of the day its only a forum. You shouldn't take anything people say on these sites seriously and which clearly rules most of you mungs out

    Guards, RMPs, and PTIs obviously
     
  15. No you didn't. I think you simply meant by 'some speed' to mean driving safely at a faster speed than the silly cunts with twittering ring pieces, who piss about at 10 mph on roads that are safe to be driven on at the usual 30 mph..I agree..they are fucking wankers.